just spent about half an hour reading various blogs on there, will have to save as a favourite

Ah, at home he is excellent with this. Get him out of the house however and he's sooooo busy scanning the environment that I cease to exist. He appears to be extremely stressed on leash walks. Off leash on the field he's nowhere near as hypervigilant and more relaxed and responsive but not brilliant. I've tried clicking and treating for him turning to look at me in response to his name but it's still iffy.

Around 4 months of just hand feeding him his dinner in the living room which oddly enough was the least distracting room as everyone sat in the kitchen. Then roughly the same amount of time asking for simple things such as sit.
I've done this without a leash several times for days at a time. I've found a leash gets in my way when I'm trying to do anything or I end up stepping on him because it keeps him too close.

I've tried touching him, he doesn't appear to notice the touch any more than he does anything else. If I just stand there and wait we end up standing there waiting until the prey has disappeared from sight.

* How did you teach the name response?

* stress on the lead , whats he like on a flexi ?
will he play with the lead tuggy etc?

* i wouldnt WAnt you too touch him

* do you haveany "key" (emergency) words introduced /taught with play?

* have you ever just "stopped" training, for a few months & just done "nothing" /all pressure"off"

*******Ps sorry for being nosey, just trying to help

Say his name, click and treat for any response to it and built up to him having to look at me for the click/treat.
I've only used a flexi out in the garden with him. I find them really uncomfortable to hold and don't really trust them not to break. He won't play tug with anything let alone the leash. I've managed to clicker train him to tug for about 5 seconds in the house but he's not really interested.
No.
Not for a few months but I have stopped for several weeks a few times. More out of frustration at getting nowhere than anything.
No worries

Its pretty simple really, dog wants reward but isn't getting it until its behaviour changes.
The behaviour it was doing first is negatively punished.

I think I gave an example of luring from sit to down, sit is punished because it doesn't get the reward so the dog changes its behaviour to get the reward.

Bellon (top ring sport trainer) talks about frustration increasing motivation in the vids, this is similar and will also involve aversive due to the dog wanting rid of frustrations.
IT could be argued that even reward based training utilises aversives because the neg punishment state is aversive (frustrating/depressing/whatever) so the dog changes its behaviour to relieve the aversive state.

The thing to mremember with these (proper) science terms is they are not related to emotional judgement of the training or advertising ect, they are just terms.

Adam

I still agree with it but theres a diff between time and repititions. I'm thinking in terms of learning repititions 9many in short period) as opposed to our expectation of time 9days weeks ect)

I have found it is possible to teach/proof a behaviour in a short period, it will require maintenance but not neccasarily ongoing training!

Adam

I get really irritated when people loosely abuse the word "science" when they have no knowledge of anything scientific. Your post is flawed because you do not have any scientific background.

Really? Seeing as you have researched me so well I think you know different lol.

Adam

There is nothing scientific about you or what you do.

Adam, we know this is what you "believe" but I am asking for genuine science here, not mumblings about this, that or the other. I think you once claimed it was from Skinner - but it's not, is it?

...... More examples are not needed, therefore. Just where it came from. And I don't mean BB.
Goalpost moving.

Adam, I asked you to prove what you have said. You are talkling about OC (sorry to those who are bored by this, please ignore this and related posts).

This has to be thrashed out because you KEEP using it as LIE to pretend that reward based training is actually unpleasant for the dog. That is below the belt.

Therefore you HAVE to be able to back this up SCIENTIFICALLY whether you like it or not. Due to the fact you are talking about what happens during OC.

I've had conversations with Bob Bailey about this, not Bart Bellon and until we can know for sure what an animal is thinking, we can only go on observable behaviour. in science when talking about OC. Therefore pos. reinforcement in OC does not involve using negative punishment first.

If you cannot prove scientifically that using positive reinforcement is the same as using negative training at the same time, which you cannot, then please desist from your claims that is it true.

Wys