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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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25-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer 
I agree training is ongoing but when we are talking bad situations life or death behaviours ect I think quicker is better.
Also there's a difference between maintenance and ongoing training. I could maintain recall on normal walks ect just by calling and rewarding with a release command (premack) but many reward based trainers seem to advise long term regular training (in addition to normal recall) and often periods back on lines ect.
Also I assume we are talking normal dogs? What about those with a history of predatory aggression or chasing?
Adam
The ONLY sort of recall i teach is FAST, better in life & death situs than your slow excuse of a recall
Im talking all sorts of dogs, why wouldnt i be?
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
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25-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
Its not quicker though is it? Ive just said i can teach it as quick, if not QUICKER
The ONLY sort of recall i teach is FAST, better in life & death situs than your slow excuse of a recall
Im talking all sorts of dogs, why wouldnt i be?
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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25-02-2011, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by Crysania
Yes! THIS. I've seen Adam's dog's "recall" and I'm not sure if they're coming because he called or shocked them or because they just happen to be heading that way. A dog who WANTS to come to you because they know they'll get rewarded (not necessarily treats -- with recalls, I often find dogs recall to tug even better) will move FAST. Much safer when you need to get the dog out of a bad situation.
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,848
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25-02-2011, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
theres been various vids , esp of the collie & it dosent even come back, its called losads of times, trots back slow & dosent even come all the way too him. RECALL NOT!!! id be wanting my money back if thats what i got
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Location: Manchester
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 320
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25-02-2011, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I agree.
Adam, I challenged you a while back on some thread to either back this up (and no, Skinner did not say this ) or shut up about it - i.e. stop spreading lies.
IF you can back it up, fine, but you know perfectly well that you cannot.
So either back it up with something very clear, or quit it
WW from another thread.
Bart Bellon discusses it in these two videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NLlqiccc_Y&NR=1
150 sec in he talks about varying rewards and stress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDkfP...A14ADD593BC58F
bit at the start about frustration with reward.
The frustration is aversive the dog seeks to stop the frustration, its mild but so is stim
Adam
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Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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25-02-2011, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
So more than 4 hours in total then, plus spread out over weeks/days for latent learning ect.
How many hours would you say in all? on average.
Adam
Oh dam----its like Jaws, just as you think the water is safe........
rune
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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25-02-2011, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer
I agree.
Adam, I challenged you a while back on some thread to either back this up (and no, Skinner did not say this ) or shut up about it - i.e. stop spreading lies.
IF you can back it up, fine, but you know perfectly well that you cannot.
So either back it up with something very clear, or quit it
WW from another thread.
Bart Bellon discusses it in these two videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NLlqiccc_Y&NR=1
150 sec in he talks about varying rewards and stress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDkfP...A14ADD593BC58F
bit at the start about frustration with reward.
The frustration is aversive the dog seeks to stop the frustration, its mild but so is stim
Adam
.
Videos!
I suspect you are actually moving the goalposts Adam.
We are not just talking about frustration, we are talking about your perpetual dig re. "negative" stuff occurring before positive reinforcement if a treat is expected (ie in the pocket). This lie used by shock collar people so that they can then pretend that actually, using pos. reinforcement is negative training
You can't back it up
I thought not, because it's impossible to back it up.
Because it does not exist in that way.
One more chance, then you have to stop continually pushing this fib.
Wys
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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25-02-2011, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
Oh dear , my bran has just imploded.
I was thinking who was the worse/best trainer CM or AP.
I honestly dont think i can take much more brainpain
To train recall is easy. It takes brain cells and some sossidge.
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