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Lurcherlover
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Location: wiltshire
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08-07-2008, 07:39 PM

I want to feed my dogs RAW.

I want to feed my dogs a raw food diet only, i have researched alot and apparantly all they need is meat and bones, no veg etc.

I have a borzoi who weighs about 27kg, 2 lurchers who weigh 27 and 29kg and a chihuahua who weighs 5 1/2lb.

How much food would these need a day? Which meat and bones can they have? How much a week do you think it would cost a week to feed raw? Im thinking of buying from landywoods.

Sorry for all the questions, but i have no idea!!!!
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tawneywolf
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08-07-2008, 07:57 PM
There are several different ways of raw feeding, I personally do feed pureed veg and base my way on the prey model. You are best having a look at a raw feeding site like Britbarf on Yahoo groups, they will answer all your questions on there as some of the members have been feeding raw for many years.
I am sure people will come along and give you advice on what books to get, what sites to join etc.
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Ziva
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08-07-2008, 08:10 PM
For Prey-Model/Raw Meaty Bone feeders, the starting point is between 2-3% of ideal adult body weight. So if that ideal weight is 70lbs/32kgs then you feed between 1.4lbs/640grams to 2.1lbs/960g per day.

If he's on the lean side then start with 3%, if he's perfect go with 2.5% or if he's a bit tubby go with 2%. So, that's your starting point and then you monitor their build carefully and adjust food amounts accordingly. Note, I said monitor their "build" and not their actual weight - raw fed dogs build muscle more easily and muscle weighs heavier than fat.

Meat choice is really up to you and availability. My favourite meat is mutton as it's red, rich, and my dogs can't stop licking their lips afterwards! Any meat really is good - green tripe is especially good if you can get it.

This is a posting by a very experienced lady called Michelle Morgan. She has aimed it at puppies, although vitually all of it also applies to adult dogs.

This is by far the best piece of writing on raw that I have ever seen, so I thought is was worth sharing......

This is a public service message that summarizes the nutritional basics of raw feeding for new raw feeders with puppies. The information is gathered from the rawfeeding lists, as well as several nutritional resources on the internet which you can also find by googling. I hope new members find it useful. It also applies to adult dogs - anything that is specific to puppies and not to adult dogs is cited as such (re calcium absorption and vitamin E).

Puppies need meaty meaty meaty bones: Puppies need more protein than adult dogs as they grow at an incredible rate. Protein contains essential amino acids, the building blocks of your future dog. Muscle meat is a great source of protein, but it contains a lot of phosphorus and is low in calcium.

That is why puppies need bones (and other connective tissue like cartilage). These provide biologically balanced minerals, especially calcium, but also copper, iodine, iron, magnesium, zinc, and manganese. The best and safest way to provide balanced calcium and phosphorus is by feeding raw meaty bones that have between 10 and 15% edible bone in them. Puppy does not have to eat all the bone, if sufficient edible bone is offered, in general puppies will get enough calcium for normal skeletal development. Supplemental calcium should not be fed to growing pups. Puppies do not have a mechanism for controlling over-absorption of calcium, which leads to a calcium/phosphorus imbalance and abnormal skeletal growth.

Puppies need fat in their diets – high quality animal fat, which means the raw fat that comes attached to the meat. Some trimming of incredibly fatty meats is ok, but don't trim drastically.

Puppies need to eat organs. About 8% of the total diet should be a mix of organs which provide an enzyme-rich mixture of protein, B-complex vitamins, vitamins A and D, some vitamin C, and essential fatty acids EPA, DHA, and AA, along minerals such as manganese, selenium, zinc, potassium and copper. Liver has a high iron, Vitamin A and B12, and folate content, as well as niacin and pantothenic acid. Like muscle meat, organs contain a lot of phosphorus (and potassium) and are low in calcium. Heart counts as a muscle meat more than it does as an organ. So do chicken gizzards.

Green tripe is a great food for puppies. It is the stomach from grass eating animals which contains beneficial bacteria, essential fatty acids and other nutrients, and it has a very good calcium/phosphorus ratio.

Puppies need approximately double the amount of vitamin E as adult dogs. It is found in organs, (liver, heart, kidneys, brains) and in red meats in moderate amounts, and in eggs and fish in plentiful amounts. The essential fatty acid DHA (Omega 3) is also plentiful in fish and in organs like brains, kidneys, and liver.

In summary, if you feed a variety of raw meaty (and I mean meaty) bones, with an overall average of 10 to 15% edible bone, and you feed some organs that add up to about 8% of the diet, you've got all the bases covered.

If bone percentage strays much higher than these values, you may be feeding too much bone at the expense of much needed protein and throwing off the calcium/phosphorus ratio – which can interfere with proper bone formation. If you fed primarily chicken necks, wings, and frames, for example, your bone percentage would be in the neighborhood of 50-60% or higher. That's not good.

If organs are not fed, the diet may be lacking in vitamins and fatty acids, iron, and other necessary stuff. You could make up some of this in eggs and other food items, but organs are ideal. Dogs that don't like liver can usually be converted by partially freezing it, or offering it lightly seared the first few times.

Organs are rich, and generally should be fed in small portions along with the regular meal. Feeding a "liver only" or "organs only" meal is pretty much a guaranteed way of giving your dog the runs. Organs need not be fed every day – you just want to get an average of 8% over the long run.

Do not be tempted to feed more than 8% of organs, especially if you are using mainly liver. This is too much of a good thing, and your pup will be overloaded with non water soluble vitamins which he or she cannot eliminate. Too much vitamin A will interfere with vitamin D activity which is essential for calcium absorption, and cause brittle bones prone to fracture.

If you feel like you need to supplement for Omega 3 (grain fed meat animals are low in Omega 3 compared to grass fed animals) do so with fish body oil (e.g. salmon). While some form of Omega-3 can be found in flaxseed, walnuts and a few other foods, the most beneficial form of Omega-3 - containing 2 fatty acids, EPA and DHA - can be found only in fish.

Do not supplement with Cod Liver Oil. Cod Liver Oil is like liver… it contains vitamins A and D and using it as a supplement in addition to raw feeding could be overdoing it on both counts.

Do not supplement with other vitamins. The best source of nutrients is from whole foods, and a balanced and varied diet. Supplements are only needed if a dog cannot receive all of the nutrients it needs because it either can't or doesn't eat enough, or can't or doesn't eat a variety of species appropriate foods. Supplementing vitamins and minerals is never a good substitute for healthy feeding. First of all, vitamins, minerals, and nutrients that imbalanced will interfere with the correct functioning or absorption of other vitamins and nutrients. Secondly, randomly supplementing because something sounds like a good idea can lead to providing excessive levels or one or more nutrients if you do not know what puppy is already getting in their food. Calcium is one of the most commonly over supplemented items.
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tawneywolf
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08-07-2008, 08:16 PM
WOW!!! that is an amazing piece, extremely comprehensive and easily understood (even by me). Thanks for putting that up
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Lene
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08-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Great post... Thank you!
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bichon1
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11-07-2008, 07:24 AM
I feed my 3 bichons raw and have done for the last few months. They are feed minced lamb, minced chicken, offal mixed with raw vegetables cut small. They also have fresh fruit made into a smoothie with Goats milk or natural live yogurt. Occasionally the also have rolled oats mixed into food and all topped off with a squirt of Kronch Salmon oil.

Bichonmum
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Lynn
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11-07-2008, 07:36 AM
I feed raw with veg and fruit whizzed round in the food processor as they do not digest them well and then freeze in ice cube trays and just thaw when I need them. I also give Kronch salmon oil, sunflower oil, clove garlic minced, tsp honey, tsp natural yoghurt once a day. Ollie also gets raw eggs but he will only eat them mixed in his food. I try to give at least twice a week.
He has tinned salmon with cottage cheese as a treat once a week.
He is a large dog and tends to put on the weight as he is neutered and on the lazy side, he gets 2% of his body weight because of this.
HTH.
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malamutes
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19-07-2008, 01:49 PM
RAW !! yeah, its the BARF Diet, look it up on the net, loads of info, Iv been feeding my malamutes BARF for the last 4 months, local butcher fills two huge carrier bags with pork bits, i.e. tails, trotters, ears ribs, for 3.00 that last my dogs 3 weeks. I feel vege after its been liquidized, natural yogart (ice pops kiddies ones and freeze), sardines RAW, Liver ice lollies when its really hot, you can feed bones direct fromthe freezer also, takes longer for them to eat and great exercise too...
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Evie
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19-07-2008, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by malamutes View Post
RAW !! yeah, its the BARF Diet..
There's more to raw feeding than just the BARF diet.
I'd suggest to the OP to have a look at all the ways of raw feeding before deciding what style suits you and your dog best.

Have a search on here as well for posts and links with lots of info.
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Sarah27
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19-07-2008, 04:51 PM
If you start off with 3% of their body weight, which is a good starting point (you may need to add more or feed less according to how their body condition is after a while), the 27kg dogs will need 810g a day total food.

What I do is break it down into 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organs. 5% of that 10% has to be liver. Or it can be all liver.

I started by feeding just bone in chicken for 2 weeks. I have a small dog so he got chicken legs for the first week. Then I bought a whole chicken and cut it into quarters for him.

If they're ok after 2 weeks (no runny poo etc.) then you can start adding in very small amounts of a secon type of meat. I gave beef next. Literally start with a piece the size of your thumb the first time and get a little bigger at each meal. This is so the dog's system gets used to the new protein and you don't get butt explosions!

It's best to hold off on the organs for the first month. Then start giving a thumb sized piece and gradually increase the amount. Because my dog is small I give him all of his organs in one meal (he gets 100g a week).

I'm too lazy to figure out the percentages for your other dogs lol

IMO there's no need for fruit, veggies, supplements, yoghurt etc. The whole point of feeding this way I htink is to 'get back to nature'. You don't see many wolves in Asda with a trolley full of apples, bananas and virtually fat free yoghurt
HTH.
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