I think with a dog with fear issues the quicker you can show them that other dogs are ok and not going to hurt them, that their fear is unfounded if you want, the better.

In a class the dogs will often be all on lead and kept away from each other. This imo does nothing to show the fearful dog that those other dogs are not out to hurt him, if you add to this the classic situation of a few dogs in class who are highly socially motivated and stare at/lunge towards the fearful dog you have a situation were the dog may become more scared.

Obviously some people run things differently. http://dickrusselldogtrainer.com/Soc...n_Classes.html

Adam

Friend with a reactive dog used to have him on a red lead because people were always saying they didn't know which of her dogs was which.

I think it depends on the owner.

I have a dog aggressive dog, and you have to use common sense. When we first went to obedience classes, we had a very good trainer who allowed me to join in in what I believed Alfie could cope with, stand miles away from the other dogs and warn others in the class not to come too close. I used to take him outside of the class during recalls and retrieves because the running dogs were too much for him. Gradually this has improved but I have had to develop very fast reactions and always think one step ahead.

For example, with the help of our trainer we have developed a bombproof 'down', which can be used in emergencies such as alfie potentially going for another dog. For example at an agility demonstration (Yes, the dog who couldn't handle retrieves can now go to agility!! ) a dog ran into the ring whilst Alfie was performing, and I was able to shout down and avoid a problem. This is thanks to attending classes.

Being around dogs in the classes (often calm and well behaved dogs) has allowed him to learn to tolerate dogs, to the point that he was off-lead at our christmas party and has been invited on off-lead group walks.

The only way aggressive dogs can overcome their issues is by learning that dogs are okay, and a calm, controlled environment is the best place to start.

Good point.
I was in a class with Daisy once. She was muzzled and one woman refused to stand beside us for that reason and was quite nasty. The trainer pointed out to her that in fact I had the safest dog in the class, since she was the only one who couldn`t bite.
You`re going to meet all sorts of dogs when out. It is as well to learn how to control your dog in a class first.

Ultimately I think it all comes down to the class trainer - a class is only ever as good as the trainer.

I took Dex to one class where the teacher had a very nice,relaxed approach. Alas he was *so* relaxed that he didn't even notice when one of the dogs started showing aggression and it then fell to a class member to ask for said dog to be muzzled.

I would not have any problem if there were DA dogs in a class - but I would have to be far away from them because Dexter is one of those dogs described well by ADAM just now, and he would lunge and bark in a bid to instigate play.

From a trainers point of view - it kinda depends on what you mean as dog aggressive.

To many, a dog which shouts at another for sniffing its bottom inapropriatley is aggressive, to me that dog is a good and usefull teacher. To other people, only dogs which actually proactively bite and injure blood, are aggressive. Then of course there are the high potential aggressive to consider.....What is dog aggressive?

At the moment we run 11 classs a week, plus special events. We try to ensure that age groups are kept together so puppies don't come across "unknown" adults and teenagers who are going hormonal, are a amongst owners who know what to expect.

We do take unsocialised dogs into adult beginner classes but they are assessed first. We also take on genuinely aggressive and sometimes dangerous dogs - though these are only allowed into our very highest level class where the dogs and handlers who attend the class are used to experiencing such dogs and know how to behave. And even then only after assessment and some previous behaviour management training.

We have accidentally come to be well thought of for our work with aggression cases, and people travel all over to see us, but it is only because of the use of other dogs in aggression case therapy that we have the success we do. Dogs often need other dogs about, to improve. But which dogs/handlers you chose is crucial. And safety must be at the forefront of everyones mind.

Most importantly though I believe, is that every dog and handler is treated as unique. Too many people in my ivew, say that for example, "with a fear aggressive dog you do this" and "for a reactive dog you do this.." I don't think it works like that. Every dog needs to be understood on its own merits. One dog that lunges and barks can be totally different in its head to another that lunges and barks. There are no general solutions that apply to all "types" and therefore flexibility of approach is in my view the most crucial ingredient of success.

Thats my view.

This is sadly true. I've been accused of having a vicious dog before because their untrained and rude dog ran up and shoved his nose up her butt or ran up and jumped on her. I wish more people were educated in dog communication!

Thats very true.

Teagan was/is agressive.
If she saw another dog across the road[or at the other side of the park], she would pull you across the road to try and attack it (she managed to pull a combined weight of 24 stone!).
If a dog came up to her, she would attack it, and keep attacking until either her or the other dog is totally removed.
If she even SAW a dog through the car window she would try and attack it.

Now after being allowed into a class (sadly we've not been for a year due to my health) she's completed a 6 mile dog walk surrounded by other [strange] dogs. She can walk through the park without reacting [as long as the dogs don't approach us].
She still isn't good on roads, especially if the dog is walking towards us, and she's still not good in the car when she sees another dog!

it's inevitable that you are likely to encounter aggressive dogs in some training schools. One of the reasons the owner will be taking an aggressive dog to a training school is to curb its aggression. This can be a problem for other dogs if the training isn't conducted correctly with good supervision.

Akitas, for example are naturally dog aggreessive, and this needs to be trained out of the dog while it is still young. the only way to do this is to socialize the dog with other dogs and this can lead to some incidents but they shouldn't be serious if supervision is good, a bit of growling will be inevitable while the dog builds up confidence.

Would I allow my dog to go to a class with aggresive dogs in it? No probably not. I understand the need for dogs to be socialized but I wouldn't allow my own dog to be used to help calm an aggressive dog down.

Looking at from the DA dog's point of view, I have no problem with DA dogs in a training class provided:

• that it was all part of a planned programme of desensitisation & counter-conditioning for the DA dog so that dog was at the stage where it could be comfortable & not stressed with dogs at whatever distance they would be in the class. If not, exposing a DA dog that was not ready for so many dogs, in such close proximity, with no means of escape, would be called flooding!
  
• that the trainer running the class knows the DA dog & its owner very well (preferably has done one-to-one work with the dog beforehand) & is confident that the dog is ready & can cope with the other dogs in the class.

From the other dogs in the class I would expect:

that

• the other dogs in the class & their owners are sufficiently well-trained & well-adjusted to be able to cope with the body language of a dog that may not be entirely comfortable.
  
• that preferably there are no young puppies in the class.
  
• that the other class members are happy with the situation ~ after all they are paying their fees too, so the last thing they need is for their dogs to be upset.

I have very sympathy with owners of DA dogs & personally I would do everything I could to help. But that's really the key isn't it ~ not every DA dog will be helped by going to training classes!! And what about the motivations for the aggression to other dogs ~ there can be different causes, e.g. fear, predatory, previous training for fighting/hunting. On top of that there are different ways that these dogs deal with their fears ~ some shut down, perhaps try to hide away, but can explode when another dog gets too close. Some dogs just immediately react by going into bark/lunge mode, others give plenty of warning signs first, & with predatory aggression, the behavioural signs may be very different!

I don't think that there's a "yes" or "no" answer ~ it very much depends on the individual circumstances of the dog, the owner, the trainer, the location of the classes, the other class members & many other factors. And there are other ways for DA dogs to be exposed to other dogs in comtrolled circumstances ~ it doesn't have to be a dog training class.