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Meg
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06-11-2006, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie View Post
It is nothing complex, believe me.
Hi Jenni if it is nothing complex why do you say in your previous post ...
Technique has to be seen, it is really hard to describe just on one forum. Also, when I learnt the technique, I could do it for some dogs also, but I still have a long way to go.
...if this is the case it is not going to be easy to teach people here who can't see the method being demonstrated .
I agree it sounds an interesting idea and I too taught dogs and puppies without food treats long ago and found it far more difficult and a longer process than using a 'lure' or object as a reward.
Maybe you could make a video and post a link on the forum? ?
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Lucky Star
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06-11-2006, 04:25 PM
This training: 'packdrive', what is it, how does it work?
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MazY
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06-11-2006, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie
Someone asked about new ways and I gave one and tried to give some examples and ways to do it very basic.
You most certainly have my interest. It just seems to have come along at the same time that I too have been finding that the more "natural" I am with my GSD, the better she is responding. I can give her a hundred treats, for example, but her enthusiasm would be nowhere near what it was this morning, when I, for the first time, decided to run around the HUGE car-park next door to me. I could give another dozen examples of improvements I've seen in the last few days alone, but that would take some writing...

I am convinced, and that's not a word I use lightly, that the more natural I am with her, the better she is responding. That's quite a shift for me, as someone who has focused almost entirely on an almost authoritarian work to reward basis.

At the end of the day, I don't have any loyalty to any one theory. I do what is best for me and the actual dog in question. At the moment, a more natural method seems to be paying dividends, for whatever reason.
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Lucky Star
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06-11-2006, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by GSDLover View Post
but her enthusiasm would be nowhere near what it was this morning, when I, for the first time, decided to run around the HUGE car-park next door to me.
Last time I ran ahead of Loki he took a flying leap and brought me down as though I were prey ... I thought I'd broken my elbow .

I'd really like to hear about this method too.
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Dujoiedevie
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06-11-2006, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hi Jenni if it is nothing complex why do you say in your previous post ...

If you noticed, in first quote you lend me wrong, you wrote "teached". And now as I wrote: described. It is hard to describe, because every dog reacts on its racetypical way.

...if this is the case it is not going to be easy to teach people here who can't see the method being demonstrated .
You can give people hints and tips on the forums, but I really hope no-one tries to train their dogs on forums. That is just not possible. If anyone here goes with a dog with screen and keyboard, there will be problems for sure.

Few questions should be now asked:

If you have food in your hand or pocket and dog is used to have some, will it do a task for you - or for food?

If you have a pulling finnish spitz, and that is a big problem, what is a basic thing in there? Is there anyone, who is lighter than finnish spitz?

Is the leash there for the dog to walk you or you to walk the dog?

And are your words "good boy!" weaker than a piece of cold treat and if they are, why? Make an easy test: take a piece of food in your left hand and let the dog see, you have it, move your hand and talk to your dog with normal, soft voice and at the same time move your hand. Which does the dog look at? You or your hand?

Jenni
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Dujoiedevie
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06-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Maybe you could make a video and post a link on the forum? ?
We try to make the video this week, hope that weather gets a little bit nicer.

J
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Helen
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06-11-2006, 08:34 PM
I don't train with treats. I used to but came across problems when training my springer for gundog work. She was always expecting the treat so would be lured to my hand. It took me quite a while to sort her out and since then, have trained my setter and gwp without treats. They are doing really well and we have a great relationship. They get praise from me when they do it right and they are particularly desperate to please. Whether that has to do with not using treats or their personalities, I don't know but I won't be going back to treat training again.

Helen
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Wysiwyg
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06-11-2006, 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by GSDLover View Post
Thanks. You know me, I like to read about all the different theories, and beg and borrow from several, if for no other reason than to keep the dog from getting bored.

I found a really interesting site the other night, with a book extract which really had me hooked. Sadly, trying to get the book in the UK seems next to impossible!
Glad you found the article interesting

I've come across some info on the person in your link but it must have been in a Google search as I can't remember why I found him or what it was in connection with... !!
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Greenluva
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07-11-2006, 08:11 AM
Then I had training with packdrive. Me and she came as one. Now she obeys willingly, enjoys it and I enjoy it, too!
Right on Dujoi, I never use treats from when they are a few weeks old, treats are a barrier, I use pack drive only, if you read through a few posts you can see the big treat failure everywhere, dog dangeling on a long line, owner holding a treat, the dogs relationship is with with a treat if it feels like it at the time, it ignores the owner otherwise and only bothers with a treat if it has nothing better to do.
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Wysiwyg
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07-11-2006, 10:45 AM
Dogs should get rewards - whether food, toys, praise or whatever - rather than "treats" as "treats" suggests lobbing the dogs with cream cakes and biccies for nothing.

My dog works hard for her rewards - and I change what they are to keep her interested. Dogs trained in this way can be very highly obedient, you only have to look at top UK competitors to see how effective it can be and how well food can work.

It's easy and for most dog owners a simple and fun way to train effectively.
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