Learning to trust a reactive dog.....

How do you begin to start trusting a dog off lead? Or even just trusting a dog in general?

As many of you know, Cain had some problems with fear aggressive/reactive behaviour towards strangers and other dogs. The thing is I’m always expecting him to do something or react, I’m constantly aware of potential problems. Is this just sensible if you have a reactive dog, or worrying too much? Cain has been progressing exceptionally well recently. I can’t remember the last time he reacted or lunged at anyone in the street (except a few months back when a jogger that pounded up behind us in the dark, and I think that was probably fair game! He only barked a bit). He’s much calmer out on walks. He can walk down crowded tow paths with joggers and cyclists whizzing by and doesn’t bat an eye lid any more. He’s being doing brilliantly in his dog socialisation classes. Last week he was in the field with 15 dogs (many of them “problem” dogs) and numerous owners and he didn’t put a foot wrong. He’s been running around with all these strangers in class, mostly ignoring them but even getting pats off of a few. He’s been letting visitors in the house with no problems.

Yesterday I asked my OH to walk Cain to the park so I could meet him there directly after work. Generally only I, or my trusted dog trainer, walk him. But recently I’ve let Liam take him out a few times by himself and all has been good. Yesterday I asked him how Cain had been. He said Cain had been perfect, not pulling, ignoring everyone and even not paying too much attention to a few dogs he walked past. He said I worry too much, which is probably true! Yesterday I sat on a bench and watched Liam and Cain approach. I deliberately didn’t greet them as I wanted to see what Cain would do. Cain pootled past the bench (normally I’d have switched him to the other side, so I was in between him and the person on the bench, or have taken a few steps aside so he couldn’t reach. However Liam didn’t do this, so the dog was near the bench). He was sniffing the ground, wandered to close that he tapped his head on my shoe, looked up in interest…..then saw me and went mad But my point was that, if it had been a stranger on the bench, it didn’t look like he’d have cared in the slightest, he showed no sign of reacting before he realised it was me.

I still tend to heavily manage situations out while we’re walking. I keep him on a lead and out of reach of most things. If I see a stranger/dog/jogger/cyclist etc, I reel him right in. However recently I’ve been “testing” him. I took him to a reasonably busy park and put him on a long line. I weaved in and out of groups sitting on the floor, walked directly at a group on teenagers playing football and following closely behind strangers. I let him walk where he wanted, keeping the line slack and no pressure. I walked him close enough that he was aware of the groups, but not so close that he could actually reach them should he lunge. Sometimes I waited until he looked the people, then I recalled him, and he came every time. He managed it all really well, didn’t react once and generally seemed unfazed by the presence of people. He was like “yeah, I see them, so what?”. I’ve let him off lead in a local park when there have been teenagers playing on a semi enclosed sports pitch and he’s ignored them.

With all this I feel I should be trusting him more. But I just can’t! I worry too much. I only let him off it I can get a totally empty secure park. We go to a fairly empty open green which would be ideal to start letting him off lead. Problem being that the odd jogger does pop up. He’s better in crowded places where he can’t focus on one thing. When it’s quite then something comes out of nowhere, it startles him and he reacts. Of course I could always recall him and put him on lead. But what if he fails his recall? Or he spots it first? I think his recall is fairly good, but I wouldn’t say it was infallible. Or what if he sees another dog in the distance and bolts over or a squirrel? Then I’m fairly sure his recall would fail (haven’t been able to train off lead recall around dogs much for obvious reasons). I’d like to muzzle him as a precaution when he first starts going off lead but that’s incompatible with his favourite squeaky ball, which I use to reward his recall as food isn’t enough.

He can’t go off lead properly yet anyway as he is still under instruction to avoid unknown dogs outside of class, however he is progressing so well that I wouldn’t be surprised if they say he can start interacting with dogs outside of class soon, maybe in a month or so. But I look at this fairly empty green with no dogs and this……”shall I?” but then I bottle it! His recall is fairly good but I’m just scared he’ll fail it and what could potentially happen if he did. Although he’s never done anything worse that run and bark at someone….

He’s done so well lately that we’ve even finally taken his DAP collar off. It’s been a week now and his behaviour doesn’t seem to have changed at all, he’s coping just fine (I have a spare in the cupboard, should he need it back on).

Anyway, I’m rambling, sorry! My point is how do I find the balance between remaining a responsible dog owner and keeping everyone safe, and realising that Cain’s behaviour is far better, trusting him and giving him some freedom? I was thinking of getting a second long line to give him more freedom and stop reeling him in around strangers and see what happens? What do you think?

You have done amazingly well

Trust is just something you both build up and I think you are totaly doing the right thing by slowly building up new things

You will find slowly over time you are worrying less

I know with Mia on walks I used to be constantly scanning the horizon, but now I am less on guard - but you dont notice these things till you think back

Its slow steps for him - and slow steps for you


But so very well done

Muzzle him and give it a go.
I still get the heart in mouth moment when an unsuspecting person strokes Daisy. And the first time a small child gave her passing pat I nearly fainted!
It is hard, I know. But there`s no rush, is there?

Thanks both, I really appreciate your advice, especially as you both know how it feels! I know theres no rush. I just sometimes wonder if my worrying and over cautiousness might be holding him back a bit, that maybe he's ready for the next step but I haven't realised it or won't let him do it. Maybe I'll pick a quiet day, pack a muzzle and rope in a few willing volunteers (to round him up if it all goes wrong!) and give it a go...

I think you have done brilliantly - I take my hat off to you.

Cain sounds as though he's doing so well; I agree with the previous poster: pop a muzzle on, take a deep breath, remove the lead.... and let your lovely lad stretch his legs

Or you could do what I did and get an even longer line, so that Cain can wander further from you but you can still retain some control.

I really do empathise - Dexter is only off the long line in the park when his canine mates are present and they all stay in the main field. BUT even then we've had the occasional, er, blip when Dex gets over-excited.....

For instance, a few weeks ago Dex was playing with his mates, all was fine, then suddenly I saw him stop, ears swivel forward, as he went very still.... I didn't know what had caught his interest but I know him, so I lurched forward to grab him - just as a guy in shorts and football top appeared in the distance, jogging towards us, and carrying a goal post....

I was too slow to grab Dex; he went galloping across the field at this bloke, barking his head off

I couldn't catch him so just had to watch helplessly while screeching 'I'M SORRY - HE IS FRIENDLY' which of course was no help at all to the poor bloke!

When Dexter got nearer, however, he simply stopped, and looked at the guy - and to his credit, the guy just carried on jogging!!

However - Dex is a yellow Lab, and I think that stops some people feeling threatened. Had he been a GSD or Rottie, I can't help thinking the bloke might have reacted differently.....



Oh, and I don't think you are 'worrying' too much - you are being a RESPONSIBLE OWNER. Again, kudos to you; you are doing everything you possibly can to help Cain and to set him up for success AND to protect other people also!

Will you let us know how it goes if you do take that leap and let him off leash?

And if you don't feel ready to let him off yet, don't worry about it - small steps

I think you have done amazingly well and Cain of course.

I would carry on as you are you are. By the sounds of things you are lossening up on the worrying front.

As you know Ollie was reactive to some dogs and some people. I started to trust him and myself more and more when we were experiencing less and less reaction but I think you always have to keep to the back of your mind that the issue whatever it is with them is there and never completley become complacent.

Sounds like you have worked wonders with Cain. I think sometimes we dont realise how our dogs behaviour changes, we always tend to view them how they used to be.

For example my dogs used to be into everything when off lead and Flynn in particular was always rushing about at 100mph getting up to mischief. It was a tough job trying to handle 3 dogs and stopping them doing things they shouldnt but were hellbent on doing anyway. The other day I came across my trainer on a walk and we walked together for a short way. She commented that I gave the impression my dogs were wild and that actually they werent. It wasnt until she said those words that I actually thought about it and realised they were no trouble anymore and no longer stressed me out, they'd calmed down immensely.

My point is I still thought of my dogs as how they were 3 years ago when they were youngsters and tested my patience. I hadnt taken a step back and re-evaluated them and the realisation that they are now totally different dogs was a revelation.

We never get anywhere in life if we dont take a chance.

I know exactly how you feel, but only about the other dogs, not people, and I think you could be right when you say your worrying/over cautiousness could be making matters worse.

Last Sunday I saw 2 dogs approaching us, a lab and a flatcoat, and as they came down the slope, I thought the owner was my friend, so the flatcoat would be Redford, so I had NO fear or worries that these dogs wouldn't be ok, because Zena adores Redford and always lets him take the ball out of her mouth and run off with it. Anyhoo, as they met, Zena's tail was going like mad and so was the flatcoat (the lab was only interested in Georgie) and I let her off and they had a little play and I turned to hubby and said I couldn't understand how he hand't pinched her ball yet........then I realised as the owner came up to us, that this dog was NOT Redford I told the owner what I had thought and he too couldn't understand that his dog hadn't pinched her ball, even though she'd dropped it, coz he said he always takes other dog's balls off them.

Dave turned to me and said "it's YOU, that's the problem"!!!!

The difference is Amanda, I have seen Zena in full fight mode and I never want to see it again, and I will not let her lull me into some false sense of security that she's going to be fine with all dogs, because I know 100% that she will NOT, because there will always be that dog who will give her the attitude and set her off again, so I'm sticking with not trusting her until I see for myself that she's fine with any strange dog. With my dog (Zena), it would only be on initial greeting, after that, YES, I could trust her just like I did with this flatcoat last Sunday when I took the lead off and like I do with so many other dogs we know and meet up with, but she will always be that unpredictable to me, and I'd much rather be safe than sorry should anything happen again.

It's different for me, because I've brought Zena up from a puppy I know WHY she's like she is, because I know every single little thing that has ever happened in our lives together and I can kind of understand why she's like she is now, but until she turns into the passive kind of gsd I've always had in the past, I just can't trust her, sad as it is. Only time will tell with Cain, there's no hurry like Ben Mc says, and the only way you will safely find out is by putting a muzzle on him I suppose, but then you'll always have that worry that he might say the wrong thing to the wrong dog and end up getting hurt himself when you do that. It's a difficult one, but I'm sure we DO make things worse with our negative vibes on some occasions perhaps.

You've done wonders with him, he's progressing well on these behaviour sessions you've been doing, but then is that because he's now used to those dogs being around him? If it's fear aggression, then he might not be so relaxed in other situations with new dogs? In all honestly, I think you've asked the million dollar question here!!!

For me, I'm a great believer in "err on the side of caution" purely because I don't want my dog hurt let alone another dog, and if she does it again, she'll be getting an asbo served on her in this area, coz a bad word travels fast around here. For YOU, it would be more the other humans I would be more worried about, because if anything dire happened there, then you'd risk losing him forever. I think the ONLY way you're going to find out is with a muzzle don't you? You really, really have done an outstanding job so far, so long may it continue.

When you figure out an answer, let me know because I feel like I'm always going to be the same with Casper! Infact, I sometimes forget and worry about Kiki too then remember she's a pretty normal dog, as dogs go
Happy to help out where I can though - my properly-fitting guard is supposedly going to be with me next week so more than up for some dog walks a little further afield, we can try Harmondsworth on our own if you like, or maybe try that dog area in Bedfont Lakes on a quiet day. I'll drag OH along and between the four of us we should be able to manage!

How did Cain actually react to people and other dogs before you started training him?

I don't know the answer to your question TBH. I'm completely paranoid about joggers and semi-nervous about cyclists/horse riders/old people/young children. Bo's 'issues' are a little different than Cains (very high prey drive combined with massive excitability) as aggression isn't a worry, but I know that "what if" feeling very well. Although, like your Cain, she has improved a LOT from where she was a year ago...trusting her completely is the issue. I'm not under any illusion that I'll ever be able to trust her completely. I'm not after a perfect dog though, so not being able to trust her 100% isn't too much of an issue for me provided she isn't totally out of control.