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Christine
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15-02-2005, 08:16 AM
Most, if not all the big pharmaceuticals sell vaccines thruoght Europe & rest of the world, including UK Fort Dodge, Bayer, Novartis, Intervet, Pfizer, Merial, Schering Plough etc. Vaccines are routinely given to horses, cattle, pigs, birds as well cats n dogs, practically anything that breathes these days!
Vets may use one supplier for cats/dogs for certain vaccine, say like parvo/distemper, then another supplier for something else say kennel cough or rabies.
The link below is for NOAH & you can get their compendium which gives info on all veterinary products, whats used for such & such a thing, who makes it & all the data sheets about the products

http://noah.co.uk/publications.htm

Christine.
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WiggilyStump
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15-02-2005, 10:35 AM
My dog gets a booster once every year and I thought that was normal, this is the first I've heard about this, thanx for the info!
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jess
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15-02-2005, 10:54 AM
what is the point in vaccinating against only two strains of lepto. i dont get it......
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Carole
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15-02-2005, 10:56 AM
how many strains of lepto are there?
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TamT
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15-02-2005, 10:58 AM
My dog also gets vaccinated once yearly, thought this was normal. Also have not heard about this befor5e, I doubt anyone in this country has!
I lost a young dog to Distemper as her mom had not been vaccinated. It was heartbreaking, and decided I would never be late to vaccs from then on, as have not had any problem with vaccinating so far. All dogs have been very healthy and strong immune sytems till old age!
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jess
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15-02-2005, 11:14 AM
200 ! plus its a bacteria not a virus.... so with a good healthy immune system (i.e. feed right!) dogs should happily fight off an infection.

I am reading raw meaty bones just now my Tom Lonsdale, and following this up by research on the net. He is absolutly right, 80% (thats very high) of dogs older than 3 (!) years of age suffer from periodontal disease. This is a terrible thing, easily avoided. This is the build up of colonies of bacteria on the gums, they calcify eventually, so you cant just chew something to remove this, or even brush it away. Once they exisit the bactiera enter the blood stream (through the inflamed gingivae glands) and affect the organs. This is a new thing to me and i was taken by surprise that diseased organs can actually be orignated to bad teeth. I have been reading that in people, pregnant women have a worryingly high risk of premature delivery or miscarriage if they are suffering from bad teeth/gum disease. So easy to prevent, but once its there it can affect the whole body!!!

Surprisingly when this was first announced mars and colgate plamolive (the producers of pedigree and hills) produced datsa sheets suggesting that it was THEIR food causing the damage. They then went on to say that if you give your dogs these new chews we have just invented (the rice and milk ones) this can help prevent gum disease. The vets endorsed it, therefore making the pet food companies look like innocents. People arent thinking 'damn them, they have caused the disease' rather 'oh arent they good, they invented something to help'.

They answer is simple. Bones. Provide the CORRECT calcium-phosporus ratio for strong teeth and bones, and the teeth cleaning. Also emotional effects that the dogs get (they know this is natural, and anyone who feeds bones will tell you they get a heck of alot of enjoyment out of this)

If you detest the idea of bones, make sure that the dogs are getting plenty chew filps etc to chew on. (i am a real teeth person, i am always looking at dogs ...and peoples teeth) its a good place to start, if the teeth are clean and healthy, it suggests the body is too....

Sorry got off the subject, but i am sure that you will all agree that these 'caring' companies should stop thinking about vaccinating, and get the dogs HEALTHY to start with!!!!
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Carole
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15-02-2005, 11:21 AM
my old cat had periodontal disease its not a nice thing.

So Star gets her teeth cleaned and plenty of bones and chews.
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TamT
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15-02-2005, 12:17 PM
I really dont like the idea of feeding bones, as while working at the vet, I have seen SOOOO many dogs come in for stomach ops, and when they open them up there is just a mass of rotting bone!!! They dont digest!! all the vets here advise against bones because of this. They all suggest rather that the dogs get chews (rawhide bones - completely digestible or cow hooves - also digestible). I feed bruno chews, I also (not so much lately due to laziness) brush his teeth with Petdent toothpaste (malt flavour).
I am not saying this is all correct, but would like to hear what u all have to say on the above.
Also, if anyone knows what is a good part of the animal (beef or lamb) to feed. As in which is a good bone to ask the butcher for that the dog will not be able to break bits off and swallow. Rather a very large bone that can only be gnawed on, not swallowed.
And also should the bone be cooked or raw?
Also I am gathering that everyone agrees that chicken bones are a serious NO!?
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Carole
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15-02-2005, 12:21 PM
The bones we give Star are marrow bones. I think they are mostly beef. She does not break bits off cause they end up in the bin before she gets to that stage. I hate the smell of them.

As far as I know you should never give your dog cooked bones.
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jess
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15-02-2005, 12:40 PM
i am sure you will find bone feeders disagree. What i have found through experience, is that the big bones (marrow and oxtail) digest slowly if at all. Hyenas are apparently the only anmals with the jaws to break through the leg bones, other animals just get all the meat off. Jaz however is apparently a hyena (staffyxgsd) and breaks through the marrow bone. So i take it away from him once the meat is off. These big bones (i call them 'recreational' bones) are totally different from the 'meaty bones' that we give for food as they take longer to digest so shouldnt be fed everyday. Everyday bones would be lamb ribs for example. get a raw lamb rack from the butchers, and you will find you can easily cut them with good kitchen scissors. this applies to young chicken wings/necks too. notice when you cut through, the meat is tough but the bone is soft, and cuts Straight. Now try with a cooked wing /rack. The chemistry is different; the meat is now lovely and soft, but the bone is tough, and doesnt break straight, it splinters. Its these splinters that you need to worry about. the cooked bone doesnt digest as easily, and can puncture the intestines.
When you start to feed the softer raw bones (ribs or wings) for the first week you will find small bits of bones in the droppings (i always look and feel my dogs droppings...er in the bag... for signs of health) over the space of a week the droppings now have the same consistancy (no fragments of bone) and should be cream coloured, and come out singley in bullet sized form. Also because you are feeding 100% natural, alot less comes out the other side; much more is taken in and used up within the body....ie. your not putting anything unneeded and crappy (like preservatives or additives) through you dog.
Also an interesting point. In the wild natural droppings are GOOD for the ground and earth and dissapear quickley. What we put in our dogs by commercial feeding, comes out as an unpleasant sludge that you stand in, and kills grass. Which makes sense to you now?

p.s. remember you need to add veg fibre to help your dog digest the bone. if not he may become constipated. i dont have to worry about this now, as my dogs have been on it along time, and their bodies can fully cope with bones. dogs that arent used to it will need to be feed carefully until their bodies can cope.
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