Importing breeds to the UK that may be 'problematic'

Do you think it is justifiable to import and breed 'new to the UK' breeds that have no real function in the UK and still have a very strong guarding drive?

I am thinking of some of the Eastern European flock guardian breeds that have been bred specifically to live outside and be wary of strangers and to attack if required.

Personally, although I am sure there are people who would (and do) do their utmost to provide these dogs with safe and loving homes and ensure the dogs are not put in situations where they could be a danger to other animals or people, I am also worried by the sort of prices they seem to be commanding and the whole issue of owning a dog as some sort of status symbol.

Also, surely it only takes a few unscrupulous people to start breeding without due consideration to health and temperament and although it is no fault of the dogs themselves, it's going to far harder to re-home and work with a problem dog that was never meant to be a pet in the first place. Aren't rescues coping with enough already?

Or should anyone have whatever breed they want, as long as they can cope - regardless of the wider implications?

Good question Kanie.

Personally I love some of the flock guardians, but can definitely see how they could be a problem in the wrong home.

Perhaps if breeders do decide to breed them for the pet market, they can breed out some of the traits that would be undesirable or problematic in a pet dog, in conjunction with being stricter which homes they go to?

I am not sure I have a definitive answer but I do know I feel very sad some of our old traditional breeds are disappearing and would prefer we bred more of them before importing new breeds from other countries.

Regarding anyone being able to have 'any breed they want'. Well isn't that the situation as it is now? (As long as they aren't on the Banned Breed list)

If this were to change - who do you suggest would police and enforce it? (Not that I can realistically see any laws being passed by Parliament restricting ownership of dogs to existing breeds already here - unless they add more breeds to the Banned list).

As quite a lot of pet dogs in the UK did not originate in the UK to begin with and were imported - I assume what you are saying is that we have 'enough' imported breeds and don't need any more?

I think we could have some sort of rules about where dogs can live, I have dogs in a flat but I am very aware when I plan a new addition it has to be a dog that can live here and not mind being in a flat, will be OK with the neighbours and not try to kill them on the stairs !

But the mastiff cross staffie in the next block is obviously not suitable for flat living, he has a propensity for trying to kill the cats/dogs and other neighbours ! Should IMO be in a house with a secure garden for everyone's safety.

So where they are allowed to live could be possible to enforce I think.

They have laws here about how many and what sort of dogs you can have depending on where you live.

Flat - 1 small to medium dog (as long as it is not a nuisance to neighbours)
House in town - 2 dogs
House in countryside - 4 dogs.

Quite draconian in respect to limiting how many dogs you can keep if you own a house with land out in the countryside methinks! A lot of people were outraged at this as it would affect many who 'rescue' lots of dogs and keep them.

However, like most laws in Cyprus, it doesn't seem to be enforced.

I do think it is sensible to restrict dog ownership where small flats are concerned. For the sake of the neighbours and the dogs.

Where my son lives in Bath although their property is huge it is on a managed development and NO dogs are allowed at all and you even need permission to keep a cat!

Hideously expensive and swish places - he got a letter of complaint from the 'management committee' about my little Bella being there when I visited him last year!

So there are already places where dog ownership is restricted.

Here in Cyprus lots of places write into agreements that no dogs are allowed on certain 'complexes'. However they cannot override the law of the land and the law of the land here says you CAN own one dog in an apartment as long as it is not a nuisance.

Hi We were a bit nervous,as Faye comes from dutch stock,and has some malinois which can be aggressive so far she hasnt shown any aggression,but she looks differant from our english bred Belgian Terv,she is very slight and her tail doesnt curl,our farmer gave us a nasty shock one day,he said she looks like a fox,and in Wales farmers shoot foxes.I think people should always be aware of the antecedants of the dog,that they wish to share there home with and you can get a five year family tree,thats how we discoved her dutch roots,a lot of the Associations for a particular breed are always pleased to help.fore.armed is fore warned.Gemini54

I agree we have had several terriers with huge prey drives no training that out of them, so it always seems odd to me when people with aggressive ancestry to their breeds say that it has been bred out of them...

I don't believe legislation would work either: as has been proved by the number of pitbulls at large all over the UK.

I do think people who wish to import and build up breeding populations of some very (for want of a better phrase ) 'site-specific' breeds ought to think long and hard about what they are doing and look beyond their own personal gratification.

Whether we like it or not, some breeds and some strains / types, regardless of size, do not have a disposition or needs that make them especially suitable as pets. It is just a sad fact of life that being attacked by a huge, powerful dog that weights over 10 stones is likely to cause more damage than a bite from, say, a terrier-sized dog.

The bigger 'status' breeds seem to come to these shores through 1 or 2 routes. They are either noticed by the show community and imported by people who want to push for KC recognition and therefore have a reliable means of keeping records and a route to exhibiting their dogs in mainstream shows. The second route seems to be via people who are deliberately seeking to own a dog that is bigger, stronger and more intimidating than their neighbour's.

To me, personally (again, notwithstanding the fact that regardless of which route the dogs arrived via, many will end up extremely well looked after and loved) neither scenario represents an acceptable justification for bringing in breeds that in my opinion (totally accept others may disagree ) does not have a role in the UK unless......

......they are 'toned down' by selective breeding to create dogs with a more pet-like temperament.

This sounds lovely in theory: it means people can have a dog that looks big and scary but is actually a lovely, family pet and everyone is happy - right?

Well, I think 'wrong' because human nature being what it is - there will always be some idiots who exploit these amazing dogs for their own financial gain and don't actually care about temperament. There will also be people (as Julie referd to in another thread) who actually choose to own an animal that they are a bit scared of and struggle to control.

If a breed goes down the show route, it might enjoy a surge in popularity (and get picked up by puppy farmers) and then trail into obscurity; small genepool and associated health problems (St. Bernard anyone?) before a 'new' version is 'discovered' and looks so much more healthy and unspoiled (Large Swiss Mountain Dog?)

Some breeds do seem to manage to come over here and stay in small numbers, with careful owners who value their unique traits. the last dog I saw that really gave me goosebumps because of its obvious intelligence, strength and character was a Kommodor. I have no desire to own one (much as I admire them) though.

However, just because it 'can' be done, I am not sure it 'should' be done. I really believe that while our rescues are bursting at the seems with dogs that would make wonderful pets and companions and while (if you want to go down the pedigree route) we have breeds that already have tiny gene pools and hereditary problems, to increase the choice available just exacerbates the problems all round.

I know it's not quite like the debate on zoos, but I'd far rather see dogs like Ovzcharkas and the like out where they belong, doing what they were bred for.

I think we should learn from history and take a hard look at how our native breeds have evolved and how imported breeds have fared and not just happily repeat the same old mistakes again and again.

As I said, legislation will not solve this and realistically, whether or not the KC recognises more new breeds will only have a certain amount of impact. I do think personal responsibility comes into this and a moral obligation to consider the wider implications on the future of a breed of dog and on society - not to mention the fate of dogs in general in the UK.

I'd love to hear other people's views. I'm not by any means suggesting I have all the answers and I'm not going to be at all offended if folks don't agree ( as lomg as you do it nicely!)

No fear of me offending you as I do agree. Only thing I am unsure of is could legislation help? I think it could if it was carefully drafted.