Just coming back to leaded dogs for one moment, if a dog is not suited to wearing a lead for all walks (I doubt any cannot cope with it BTW) then what happens when that dog has an injury and has to be kept on a lead, gets old and has to be kept on a lead ? Is that dog really a suitable pet for us as we have to at times (everyone I know) keep our dogs on leads.

How are you going to use this other dog, Gnasher?

I'm not sure why the thought of having to keep a dog on the lead at all times is so abhorrent to some folk, and to resort to using an e.collar over keeping a dog on a lead due to poor recall and aggression beggars belief

There are many breeds that never go off lead, due to their inherent traits, dogs with aggression issues (as with ben) need to stay on lead.

There seems to be a school of thought that keeping a dog on a lead is a fate worse than death, in my book the dog is suffering that fate every time the owner shocks the dog into a recall.

Lets face it all the crap that comes out of the mouths of the "promoters" of these collars , about "its only a stim, its only a tickle" "its does not hurt the dog is a load of rubbish after all if you find yourself in a situation with a dog you have tried everything to implement a recall and failed, and the only solution is to use an e.collar, surely common sense tells you , you have resorted to the EXTREME (PAIN) to make said dog listen to you.

By the way Gnasher, surely you are not going to work with an aggressive dog (black lab) with Ben to help him over his hatred of Black dogs

I am placing bets here, I wonder how long it takes for Mr Castle to find this thread ?

Have to admit I'm intrigued to know the answer to that too. As although Gnasher has said the other dog is aggressive and regarding this But given no detail at all of what those 'efforts' will consist of?

I am baffled as to how you can use an aggressive dog with an aggressive dog to desensitize second dog

First - who is Mr Castle?

Second - I totally agree with you about having to keep 'some dogs' on a lead all the time. Many dogs who live in town centres have to be kept on a lead at all times. Not everyone takes their dogs to wide open spaces either (I should know as I always have done and am often alone there with my dog - both in UK and here in Cyprus)

Some disabled people have to keep their dogs leashed all the time - especially those who take the dog out using a wheelchair or mob. scooter. And young mums with babies in prams and pushchairs. I was one of those young mums many years ago and the GSD was on her lead beside us all the time even in the park. If she hadn't been trained not to pull on the lead I couldn't have taken her with us - she'd have pulled us all over - I'd have had to leave her at home. If I wanted to give her a run out I put her in the car and took her into the Crowthorne Woods or up on Ceasers Camp miles from everywhere. Or even onto the nearby deserted football pitch when it wasn't being used (but never on farmland where animals might be and there is plenty of farmland in Berkshire).

I think it's true to say that dogs who've always been used to having a run about off lead every day would miss it if it stopped. But they can be perfectly happy without. And I know Bella would be happy on her stretch out lead as happy as she is off it - she never runs off anyway and usually isn't further away from me than the stretch lead would allow.

You know it occurs to me that some kids are 'very difficult to train' in the sense of trying to get them to behave in a way acceptable to other children, in the classroom, wherever. And some kids will run off away from you given the chance to do so. Or play with fire and all sorts. But how many people would resort to electric shock treatment to get them to stop doing whatever it is you don't want them to do?

I mean many years ago people would say the right way to stop a child biting is to bite the child yourself. And the right way to stop them playing with cookers and fires is to burn them! And that they'd never do it again after that! Well maybe so but thankfully that sort of outdated thinking is long gone.

Me too but perhaps we will understand better when Gnasher explains what they intend to do?

WHAT LINE, WHAT COLLAR? I HAVE NEVER TOLD YOU TO USE EITHER. Maybe you will now realise that you are putting things into my posts which are not their.

Put a photo up of him and I will get someone to ask him, then we will know what he things of the collar.


Of course you had a choice with Ben, no matter how many ways we try there is always another which we haven't, this is why I prefer positive training, if my brain doesn't work out other ways there is always someone who can. I this from experience that many brains are much better than one.

This shows your lack of knowledge on how to train a dog, how they learn and how their mind works, when a dog has a shock/hurt their instinct is to run to were/who they feel safe, zap a dog with a collar he runs to his owner, he doesn't understand why he was zapped or what zapped him, all he knows it happened so he runs to his owner who he thinks will protect him not realising that his owner caused it.

I never said that you hadn't researched these collars, again you are putting into my posts what isn't there, I said that I and only I had researched the collars. I do know there is someone else on here that has researched them.