Not at all!! I am more tenacious than a bull dog, I will never let go when I believe passionately in something. It's not too personal, don't worry about me! As you say, I can just walk away, but that is not my style. I am not wet or wimpy - I can stand the heat!

That's a ridiculous thing to say! ALL Malamutes are much stronger than even the strongest man - are you saying that no-one should have a malamute?

OH has solved the problem by buying this harness contraption designed for joggers to run 2 dogs off from it. The dogs could pull him over but they would have to drag him along and with such a load behind them would not be able to get up any speed.

Well yes in a pet situation I guess I am saying that. I don't see wanting everyone to be able to control their dog physically if necessary is so ridiculous.

I am certainly not prepared to give out any personal information. They were all well-respected dog trainers in our area. We tried all the usual positive training methods, nothing worked, Ben was simply not interested. Far too absorbed in pleasing himself as he had always done all of his life.

It was clear to us that none of the recommendations were working. But the e collar worked ... the very first time we used it.

As I say, OH has only ever zapped the dog around 5 times. He has had lots of vibrations as a warning when he has been a bit slow to respond.

I think what I must do is to do a video of Ben gambolling around in the fields, and then OH recalling him. You can slow it down, read his body language - you will see exactly what I have described, a calm, loving, happy, fit dog coming back to his master when called.

My dog has a thick double wolf coat. I am not a hairy lady, believe it or not, I have absolutely no hair on my skin whatsoever. The contact is far better on me therefore than it is on Ben, so if anything I am suffering MORE than the dog. If you want, I will put it on my neck - I cannot believe that the skin there is any more sensitive than the inside of my forearm.

I AM being hostile - wouldn't you be if people consistently refused to listen to what you are saying? As for using other languages, it is in common parlance now to use foreign expressions like "comprenez" or "que" or "au fait". Your questions are all perfectly valid, but there is an air of hostility about them because you strongly disapprove of the use of e collars, so you can hardly blame me if I am a tad hostile!!

Well there you go!! Ben must be unique in the history of e collar usage!!

Dog trainers are not behaviourists.

Sometimes you find individuals who perform the same job,but they are not the same. Unless you can quote someone from a recognised organisation that you found through veterinary referral I am left in a position where I have to say you did not indeed explore every avenue possible before using a shock collar.

As Ian Dunbar says, punishment is only punishment if it works If you continue to punish more than three times you are, by definition, no longer punishing, you are being cruel.

Given that definition and your statement that you have shocked your dog on about half a dozen occasions it would be possible to say you are cruel.

Absolutely not half a dozen times - I said around 5 and by saying that I am being generous, because actually I can only recall 3 occasions, but I am being generous because of the passage of time and the frailty of my memory.

I know that there are differences between trainers and behaviourists, and if you look back through my posts you will see that initially I would put behaviourists/trainers. I can't be bothered now - I am well aware of my proclivaties to ramble and go off the point, and I really do try to keep my posts short but it doesn't work very well.

You will just have to accept that we consulted 3 separate experts, with absolutely no luck. The only thing that worked was ONE - just ONE very low setting zap of an e collar. Ben knew INSTANTLY what was going on - the look he gave my husband was priceless!! "O well, I suppose I must come now you know what you are talking about!" At last and about time too you know how to get through to me.

Since then, over the space of at least one year, and it is probably a lot longer, Ben has had 2 or 3 more low-medium level zaps. I don't care what anyone says, that is a very very effective way of training a recall in a dog like Ben. None of the positive training methods worked, we were getting nowhere, and we had a problem that needed to be solved quickly ... not in a year or 2 years time.

There is nothing that anyone can say to make me doubt the sanity of what we have done for our boy.

Well what else can I base an assumption then? The law in Wales seems perfectly reasonable to me. If you are caught using an e collar on your dog, you will be fined.

Simples.

No need to punish the poor dog - how can it be the dog's fault? What an extraordinary thing to say that the dog would be put down

I'm not sure what to believe, you started with around 5, now your down to 3, then 2........

And I really do wonder if you had a vet referral to a properly qualified behaviourist as opposed to a local expert