Never seen one dog deliberately roll another, but I can imagine that in a severe fight a dog would want to knock the other over and keep it pinned down until it had diffused the situation.

The reason I can see that being a rare event is simply because it would take a lot of self-control and a very tolerant nature on behalf of the dog doing the pinning down. Tolerant because most dogs would go in for doing severe damage in this type of situation rather than trying to hold the attacking dog down

If the dogs have been well socialised as youngsters they have learnt that they don't EVER ever touch the belly of an upside down dog. Even in a hard fight. The roll over and the standing on top has ended all that I have seen.I would imagine it is a survival technique and is heavily ingrained in the majority of dogs. I have seen the dog underneath be rolled and refuse to give in and the dog on top simply stand with their head averted untill the other stops fighting it. Human intervention at that point is a HUGE mistake as the dog underneath thinks it has made its point and caused the other to go away.

The fights where one gets badly hurt are usually when they stay standing or where the size difference means one hurts the other easily. That is NOT to say that some dogs don't know the rules---some are bred not to know them---fighting dogs were better when they carried on so they bred for that characteristic.

Saff obviously felt with Celt when he was about 14 weeks that he needed more instruction on it and we watched her teaching him by offering her belly and telling him off HARD when he went in at her. Celt was rolled every day by Pippin who was bigger than him, when Pippin became smaller Celt was no longer rolled although Pippin tried----he simply didn't have the weight behind him to do it. That is how I KNOW that in some situations it is not a voluntary act by the rolled dog. I used to worry that Because I allowed it to happen Celt would become a thug. I was reassured by Shaun Ellis that in fact the dogs knew better than me and it would be fine. He was so right, Celt is wonderful with other dogs and helped teach many puppies the same skills he has.

I have some photos of Saff and Celt but they are not brilliant as we were indoors ---I'll see if I can put them on a picture thread.

rune

I had a GSD bitch with hormonal issues who would knock down other dogs and stand over them. If they submitted, she walked off grinning. It was not behaviour I wanted her to exhibit and certainly didn`t want to emulate. She was not a well-balanced bitch. Far too much testosterone IMO. Bit like some dog trainers.....
Pulling down in fighting or playing is characterised IME by the attacking dog trying to cripple the other by biting at the legs. This is a hunting tactic for bringing down large beasts. The animal underneath is facing imminent death and freezing (or `submitting` in our subjective view) is an avoidance ploy.

So why DO dogs pin each other? & Why shouldn't a human do it?

Dogs are dogs & humans are humans & dogs are aware that humans are not dogs & dogs do not "pin"each other the same way a human ARs & pin a dog. Yet to see a human pin a dog using their mouth or just an arm across their neck

Dogs do not live in packs(unless they are in a group that contains a breeding pair & their offspring)& they do NOT require a human"pack leader"

Dogs(unlike humans)have no plans for world domination & ergo have no need to even try to "dominate"humans

I do not roll mine, was just curious lol. I mean aren't we already in charge from the get go as humans because we have the power of the dogs well being in our hands?

I believe that the caliber of how a dog respects you depends on how well a person performs this roll... Just a laymans opinion lol.

Dogs sniff bums and lick their genitals too. And eat raw meat and poo.
CM seems a little selective about which dog behaviours he wants to copy. On TV anyway.

Tee hee hee

ROFLMAO

This is what Inka does, we were in the park few weeks ago a wee staffie off lead belted straight up to him, when they were nose to nose the staffie jumped at inkas face, now I don't think the staffie was trying to bite him or anything, but inka pulled it under him and sat on it till the owner got there then he let it go lol, the lady was screaming get your dog off my dog lol, he was only sitting on it pmsl x