Lozzi,

Mine is probably going to be the least experienced, knowledgable advice you are going to get in this thread cos pretty much everyone here knows more than I do about dogs (which is one reason I *love* Dogsey - I know someone who knows way more than me will provide fantastic advice which will help me and Oscar ) but I'll give you my opinion and see if it helps any...

Firstly, please don't think the people who are giving you really good advice are being critical or judging you. They aren't. They are trying to help you and Jake through this so you can sort yourselves out and *never* have this happen again. I know you are really close to Jake and so you are maybe not reading it as it is meant, but from an outside point of view it really reads like *no one* is being critical they just want to help.

Onto the stuff with Jake...

1) Definitely get him back to a vet and get him checked over fully for anything that may be causing him pain, plus more treatment for his eyes/ears. When Oscar was first seen by a Dermatologist we were given Stronghold in case he had Sarcoptic Mange so it is used for that. However, his eyes/ears being sore won't be helping, plus there may or may not be other things going on.

2) Although Jake has always been happy to be picked up, he is getting bigger and older and maybe he's gone off it. Oscar, as a puppy, loved to be picked up and cuddled (he always fell asleep) but around the time he was 1 he really went off it. It seemed to be overnight to me but maybe I had been missing the signs. Now, he will tolerate it if I have to put him on the vets table but not just normally. He also let me carry him when he was really unwell but I think he just felt to ill to walk.

3) Jake is a teenager now. Teenage boys are a pain in some ways (not had a girl so don't know what they're like). He will push any and every boundary he can. Oscar went through a stage where he would snap at any dog he felt like. Our trainer at classes gave us advice (having not seen it) then when Oscar started doing it in the class he worked with him and some other dogs until Oscar got over it. He pushed the boundaries on walks (not coming back when he'd had perfect recall before, pulling, not sitting when told etc) and at home. It took patience, and consistency through his training (give the command once only, going back through some of the puppy stuff, doing the basics again and again) to get him through. Is Jake castrated? If not that might be something to consider.

4) I tend to think that it wasn't just one thing, but a combination that made him bite. He is used to being tapped, he is used to being picked up, he is used to being told to get off things he isn't allowed on. However, he had been moved off your bed, then tapped to get off your parents bed, then you lent over and picked him up. Although each is an action he is used to, in combination he clearly found them threatening. For now I would avoid leaning over him at all and definitely no picking him up.

5) Use consistent and clear commands (so don't use down for 'get down from the bed' and 'lay down' for example. I use Off for 'get off', 'down' for lay down, 'sit' for sit etc). He needs to know what you expect of him.

6) Get Jake a collar. Oscar has a really narrow collar because he walks on a harness but it holds his tags so if he went missing from the garden he still has those on (which is the law) and it also means I can clip a lead on him anytime.

7) Get him booked in for some training classes. He may actually really enjoy them (Oscar loves training) and practice at home lots in all sorts of situations. One thing it may be worth teaching Jake is what I was taught as a 'dead stay'. This is where the dog lays on his side and stays still. If you want I can PM you with how I taught Oscar this or post it here. It helps us immensely as when he is getting excited or overwraught it calms him down. Plus it's allowed him to be xrayed more than once with no sedation and no nurses in the room (my vet says he's the only dog they can do it with ). I think you'll find he improves no end with some training (and you might have fun too - then you could go on and try agility etc which he may enjoy). It may be worth a 1-2-1 session with a trainer too to get ideas on mental stimulation etc.

8. Get him a basket muzzle and teach him to accept it. Meanwhile, learn how to create and use a temporary muzzle for emergencies. I don't know how you used his lead to create one after he had bitten, but it may be that the way you tied it distressed him or how you put it on. There are some good books (and probably places online) where you can learn how to do it. Also, learn what kinds of signals dogs give out before they react with aggression - there are loads and loads.

Finally, don't panic. Try not to react around Jake as though you are scared so he is not on edge. And remember, you *can* get through this together, with the right support, training and consistency. Jake needs to know where the boundaries are and they need to not move.

Oscar threw up all sorts of challenges in his teenage phase (he still is in many ways - we are starting to work with a behaviourist on his issues so things are by no means perfect here) but he is a lovely dog to be around and I'm sure Jake is too. With the right training etc he will go on and be a fantastic canine companion.

And, really finally (well done if you've got this far), remember the good folk of Dogsey are *NOT* criticising, or judging, or trying to make you feel bad. They *ARE* sharing their experience, knowledge and support which is vast and incredibly useful. Try and step back a little and see that because people here *do* care. All the posts with advice and guidance show that far more than virtual hugs which, whilst they are nice and make you feel better, won't stop this happening again. The advice just might.

*hugs* from me and *Schnuggles* from Oscar.

Blimey, even I (and I am no expert!) could see a lot of signs pointing to the dog's uncomfortableness and the reaction he was about to give. That police officer should have seen it coming even if the reporter didn't yet he is the 'hero' because he saved it from being any worse! He should have stopped it altogether!

aligord, well said
dont put yourself down you know what you are talking about and put it across really well

to the op
i am sorry you feel people were having a go
reading this whole thread i dont see that
i see lots of people who care deeply, are concerened and want to help
the fact you got so many replies and people took so much of their time typing up long well thought out replys shows how much everyone cares

we cannot know exactly what happened but clearly something went very wrong, i hope you get some pro help, if he is insured then help could be free, check your insurance

you love your boy, that clearly shows in your posting
please try and read back the advice you have had, espech from the likes of mysh and tassle
but read it with a calm head on seeing how much they want to help
its only advice and as none of us were there we cant know what really happened but please dont dismiss it

I think 12pages would overwhelm anyone, that is a lot of advice to take in, some does come across a bit harshly but there is some good advice in there as well. Lozzibear did come on here for advice and SUPPORT and give her a chance to figure out what to do next there are heaps of options been given to her she has not repelled any ideas (I dont think there has been enough time for her to even get her head around it).
I have no doubt of her dedication to Jake this is a big hurdle to approach and she will choose to do something for the best interest of Jake, lets just work at helping her.
Maybe she is saying things back that she doesnt agree with but give it some time it does take some time for it all to sink in and things dont happen overnight so I think we could help more by waiting it has not been posted for long and see Lozzibear starting to get jumped on for what would be overwhelming her, so for her sake and Jakes I think we need to give her a chance and wait to see what the new day brings.
Havent checked out the video not sure how helpful it is going to be in this situation except to highlight obvious signs are in dogs attacking while cornered which I dont think is overly relevant in this case.

Watch the vid!!!!

I`ve been bitten 4 times. Stuff happens you know?
Once - I was young and shoved my face up against a dog tied up outside a shop
Next I was lifting an injured dog without muzzling it first
Then I was holding a ball and my new foster grabbed it...and missed.
then I was in the middle of a dog fight and got caught in the crossfire.
All avoidable - but hey - if I stopped to do a risk asessment every time there was a situation...how would I ever learn anything?

Okay I watched it but that dog is a police trained dog, yes obvious signs it was not comfortable, it may help LB see some really obvious signs of a dog being uncomfortable and no one reading them and shows even trained police dog handlers are not able to read their dog correctly.
But I must ask Lozzibear did you get the sound effects when it happened to you it made it all the more dramatic one the vid

Hi Lauren,

There is loads of good info and advice on the thread here and it will take you ages to digest it. Firstly as someone not involved in the horrible situation you have been through, I think that people want to help you and are trying there best to get information and advice across in a post, you have been through a horrible experience and are emotionally charged so are a bit on edge and understandably might see things differently to how people intend thenmm to come across - thats the bad thing about forums, however the good thing is there is loads of support and advice

Ok, I will try and make this really concise. I agree with a lot of what has been said.
1) Get a collar - it may not have stopped the bite, but would have been your hand nt your face so although you would still have got a fright and been injured it would not be as severe as your face (I know I have been attacked on my face) so after the attack you will not be as wary as you are now, I gueess you may say you are not wary as it was so out of character but I know I am still wary if a dog comes to my face and thats 23 years after my attack. Subtle changes will happen you which can further confuse Jake - BUT you can work on this

2)Does EVERYONE in the house use the same commands? You may use "Down" meaning off but what about visitors, your family etc, would they ever say "oh Jake Sit DOWN" or "Jake go and Lie DOWN" It is bital that everyone uses the same commands ALL the time even visitors at this point in changing Jakes behaviour

3) Please stop picking Jake up at least for the foreseeable future, Picking up or attempting to be picked up now has a new set of circumstances surrounding it. It may well have been great up to now but fronm the time of the attack there is a new step in that process - the bite. It may well never happen again but that step is now a wee pathway in Jakes Brain. This is more significant if there is pain involved but is not to be dismissed even if no pain. Also the same goes for everyone in the family

4)You say you don't understand as picking up, tapping etc has always been tolerated, even liked up to the attack, I hope this does not come across as preaching or patronising but try to see it as similar to a young boy, he likes cuddles from his mum, he enjoys getting a kiss goodbye or a kiss hello from her but then 1 day he decides he is too old for that and shuns away from this he no longer likes it. Now I am not giving Jake human thought processes I am just using this as an analogy, to try to show that even with a complex( ) human brain the association or love of something can change so for Jake a similar thing could have happened

Also the tapping, I do not think for a minute you are beating Jake and I know you are not so please don't worry about that, again try to see it as association, soeone else explained it well, he now HAS to act on the 2nd not the FIRST command, so why not find out what the THIRD command will be - like your mum asks you do the dishes most times you will, one day you can't be bothered so she says you can't go out if you don't so off you go to do the dishes, the next time you take to long to start the dishes(or for Jake to get OFF) she says well you are not going out(you tap Jake), and the time after that if you don't do the dishes(Jake won't get off) she says you're not going out (you tapo Jake) One day you'll say "Fine I am not going out then"(Jake decides to ignore the tap)

Hopefully you see whaat I mean - the next time you may well do the dishes when asked (Jake may get off when asked) but 2 weeks later you might decide you can't be bothered (Jake decides to wait for the tap a he knows it will happen) Hope that makes sense

NILF is great everything is earned a game, a treat, a pat, even a meal - it can be as simple as sitting before getting a bowl of food but it has to be for EVERYTHING. Jake gets nothing for free (as the name suggests)

5)Don't want to dwell on this, but as you have mentioned in previous posts your own confidence in yourself has been shattered a bit just now, and this is not a criticism at all, but if you lack a wee bit of confidence in you Jake will to. Now, after what you have been through its natural for you to be feeling like this and the good news is you and Jake can work together to build confidence in each other but it has to start TODAY.

6)Get the vets to get this skin prob sorted, it may not be at the root of this event but you can bet that its dam annoying for him, I know you have been to the vet and tried really hard but INSIST that its tested, examined and sorted. Again your own lack of confidence amy lead you to accept what the vet says and the treatment suggested. Question it ask what else is available and when you help relkieve Jakes soreness you will gain confidence from that.

7)Formal training, classes, fun stuff all that will strengthen the bond. i know you and Jake have a good bond but the events ofthe last few days have changed that, it needs to be remoulded Love and cuddles is all well and good and great fun for both of you but you also need to introduce rules, boundaries and accepted behaivour.

Negative actions = being ignored - the worst "punishment" for a dog, being left in a room, back turned on them, no eye contact, being "pushed" away. (by pushed I don't mean flung on the floor but gently removing him from you etc. I would however suggest using the long line for this purpose to avoid any further possibility of biting (particularly at the minute.

Gee this was going to be concise

Sorry, you have so much to deal with and so much to try and take in and digest. Just remember that everyone wants to help you and Jake and we want to hear how you get on

Also everyone has different ways and means, but they are all based around consistency, Respect for owner from dog and for dog from owner, and trust,(I know you are working really hard to achieve all these things), you will get through this and you'll learn valuable lessons.

Take care and hugs

Years ago I inherited an elderly Springer that had been ruling the roost in his previous home for 11 years. He had everybody dancing to his tune for fear of being bitten, except me who stood up to him...............and got bitten. If I had known then what I know now I would have handled the situation very differently. The tools I would have used would have been the sort of advice that has been given here. At the time I didn't know where to turn for advice and thought that standing up to the grumpy old git was the way to go. As it was after 6 months I realised I was out of my depth and someone else took him on who was prepared to let him rule the roost. That was a really steep learning curve and I wish I had joined up to Dogsey at that point.

This thread is so familiar. She sounds like me doesn't she?

Lauren, I had all of these things going on with Woody, still do occasionally because he's only 16 months. Things only improved when I started listening to people on here; maxine, Lynne and Jackbox to name but a few and made myself see where I was going wrong/my faults in all of this.

What you are going through is perfectly normal and everyone does it while they are learning how to be with a wilful dog for the first time.

I'd strongly urge you to listen to the advice, seriously.