Recall tips, or a magic wand ;), before I leave Chester behind or give him away!!

Any recall tips that people have found to be effective, I have a stubborn, 22 month old non foody irish setter who had two of us take 20 mins to get back the other day . I thought we had it cracked, not perfect but infinitely better, because we discovered he adores chuckit balls and he came back to you as soon as it came out of your pocket, but the smarty pants that he is has now worked out that when you get the ball out and we're back in a familiar place or near an exit, and when I say near we're talking a full field away, he ignores that ball and sods off to do his own thing. He almost gave me heart failure the other day as I thought he was going to get run over on a dirt track . Do you think he's just having another teenage rebellion? He's been long lined which we're going to go back to, and he's just not going to be able to go to the woods etc where that option isn't practical, I just want to say to him "You're only hurting yourself here" . Any tips that people may have used would be great before I just give up and give him away to the next person who comments on how gorgeous he is, if only they knew , I'm just thinking atm it would be worse..... he could be an english .

I would go back to the long line, but also something that has worked with us in the past as a short term option to avoid failed recalls is to take the dog for a walk where it is possible for them to just hop back in the car, so somewhere where the car park is small and safe and you can clearly see other cars coming or going so can time a return to your car and then just head for the car!

In our case our dog came running and got straight in the car when we just said Rolo bye! He had 100% recall which dropped to zero over night, but this got us through, he is now gaining some recall back voluntarily and on demand, but we are fortunate in that we have a few places to walk where we can use this method as a back up. I know it isnt ideal but it is giving us the option to get a walk not fully revert back to the long line and have control.

good luck, also have you tried an even higher value food, hot dogs and cumberland sausage are appealing to our non foody dog, i make sure before i let him off that he has had a taste of what there is available if he returns.

What I would do?
Stop blaming the dog.
Start training from scratch again.
Bin the chuckit, use a tuggy or ball on rope.


Seriously - you have a hunting dog. Of course scents are more attractive than your chuckit. Hundreds of years of breeding telling him to track and flush. The boingy thing has no chance.
Whistle train him - you habituate a whistle like a clicker: whistle/ treat till he drools at the toot. Normally it`s 3 short blasts for come.
While you`re doing that, find a toy he absolutely adores - preferably one you can have a game with. Balls on a rope are good. When he does bring it to you, have a terrifically exciting game with much whooping and leaping about. You`ve got to be more rewarding than a pheasant, so go for it.
Then put the two together.

Another thing you can do is to play scent games. Hide a toy and let him find it. The finding and the subsequent play is the reward. If he dashes off with it, do it on lead. He needs to learn that YOU are the most fun ever.

Thank you both, unfortunately it doesn't matter how high value the food it is he's interested a couple of times but rarely for the duration of a longer walk, I've tried taking a couple of different types with me which works slightly better but not all the time. He's not into tuggy toys or balls on a rope, he's too smart to fall for the same thing more than a couple of times. It never seems that he's tracking a particular scent more like he'd just rather stay where he is as opposed to coming home, he hates the car which is something we're working on so getting into it and pretending to leave him behind is actually his idea of heaven. I'm whistle training Griffin but Chester's reaction to it is spotty, I will definitely try hotdogs as I know they work for a friend of mine, might try them as a specific recall treat and do some intensive work. Thanks for the input.

Just make sure he knows that it is hotdogs he will be returning to, my hubby was surprised when our dog didnt return to him for the gravy bones like he did our neighbour, well he was interested in her then learnt she had the bones, he was way too far from hubby to know the next day he had the bones!!! So the next day i gave him one before he was allowed to run off and then he knew what made it worthwhile coming back!

If you want to use the chuckit.

* insist that before you "chuck...it" that he isnt already halfway up the field, it just makes them happy with that distance
** teach a touch /return back to the chuckit, by using it as a target stick with food in the bottom bit,

We met a beautiful Red Setter yesterday whose owner was tooting away on a whistle....and I was impressed initially as I thought he was aksing the dog to down at a distance...he wasn't, it was for recall Beautiful dog. Even Tango loved her!
Anyway that aside...
If the chuckit works ...brill. Have 2 balls. Always. One to throw one to have when he ******s off with the other one.
Teach him to retrieve the ball to hand, with a sit in front of you. It takes a while but is worth it. I make all mine recall to the front of me and sit, having made contact with my hands.(Throw back to puppy walking but very useful), Cosmo then has to give me the ball. I then (sometimes) make him sit and wait whilst I walk away and then release him as I throw the ball...makes him much more tired as he ahs to use his grey matter
We also drop the ball into cover when he is sitting at a distance in a wait so he has to hunt for it...perhaps you could do something like that.
Sounds like he is anticipating having the lead put on and going home. I would put the lead on at different times in the walk, walk a little with it on and release, just a couple of times. I would also pop it on halfway through at somepoint and not take it off...pop him back in the car, then sit in it, then get him out and go again so he can't anticipate.

I would also do some work on the car with him, incase it is fear based (his non return)...there's allsorts you can do with that.

Hope that helps a bit and gives a couple of ideas

If he likes tennis balls, I assume he enjoys playing with toys in general? how about buying an extra special toy that ONLY comes out when he recalls successfully?

Does he have access to toys all the time? you increase the value of toys if they DON'T have access to them all the time. My dogs have access to various chew things (Nylabones, etc.) that are left lying around, but I don't leave tug toys/balls/training dummies lying around. Playing with these is therefore a great treat for them, because they are more of a novelty.

I would also keep cracking on with the whistle. Use the extra special toy and/or a super high value treat as a reward 100% of the time.

variety and praise
vary the food rewards, vary the play, vary when and what you play on the walk, hide and seek, chase, tug, ball... praise him just for looking at you (when you havent asked)....vary where/what point you let him off....it takes time.