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sarah1983
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Location: Bad Fallingbostel, Germany
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03-08-2011, 02:25 AM
nervous-dominant
This makes no sense. How can a dog be both nervous and dominant at the same time?

My dog is terrified of other dogs since being attacked god only knows how many times. Is he dominant because he'll bite them if they get past me? No. He's just a frightened dog doing what he feels he has to do to deal with a situation. Popping him in the neck, kicking him in the stomach, choking him etc isn't going to do anything to change how he feels about other dogs. Yet that's exactly what CM would do. That's exactly what he's done to other fearful dogs.
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BangKaew
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03-08-2011, 05:23 AM
But you are right, no one else is going to be able to control that dog using dominance!

So the dog has to be 'domonated' by every new potential handler? whereas if you actually change the dogs mindset about other dogs then the dog can deal with all sorts of situations no matter who is at the other end of the lead
I am sure Cesar himself would, with hindsight, say that his way was not appropriate for that couple.


Its actually the vibration the cells resonate at but can you measure confidence or nervous energy? A dog knows exactly how you are feeling.

hmm well I would say dogs know because they are such great body laungage experts
Exactly. And they know by the tone of your voice. But it is more than that, I can be sitting and if I become nervous I will get a lick of reassurance.
would you find it acceptable for your dog to correct your children then same way they correct other dogs? Dogs behaive differently towards people than they do to other dogs
Children HAVE to be seen as PACK LEADERS also and a dog does not tell a pack leader what to do.


Plenty of them - often vids are not as spectacular because as soon as a possitive trainer is aware of the problem they do not try and goad the dog into practising the undesired behaviour
Of course, Cesar himself says his is not the only way. Just the way dogs do. I think any dog will do anything if it thinks it is going to get food. Bribery is not how a dog controls his or her pack.

your dog thought he was the boss of you because you provided him with water??
I am glad I dont have to have that kind of relationship with my dogs - they come back because I have trained them to and because fun things (like working with me) happen when they are with me
Of course not now, but when he was under 18 months and before we had been using Cesar's way, yes. Let me explain a bit more. I can not walk without assistance so I can not train my dog the way I would like. Added to that the elder dog was born on the beach and no doubt from a long line tough alphas. He is mostly a breed that is that is half Jackal* , which we did not know at the time, and we got the dominant beautiful pup! This is a breed that when someone tried to breed them in America, they were so aggressive they were all put down. When he was about 11 months he started biting people that came to the house or people who tried to pet him when he was out. So I can not do anything and my very soft Filipina wife was, until she saw the dog whisperer, unwilling to make the dog know that he was not the boss. I can not and she will not do any finger jabbing or the like but she could have rules, boundaries and limitations together with other techniques that Cesar recommends for showing dominance. It also made a difference who was with me in the truck. He would not come back for one girl who was not that assertive. Through using Cesar's philosophy he is now a perfect.
So are you saying in the wild of all the litters produced by the alpha pair ONLY the alpha cubs go on to breed?
I am saying nothing other than when 5 cubs were introduced to a male and female adults. The 8 months cub became the alpha of the pack, not the adult male. They were not related.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkaew#History
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BangKaew
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03-08-2011, 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
This makes no sense. How can a dog be both nervous and dominant at the same time?

My dog is terrified of other dogs since being attacked god only knows how many times. Is he dominant because he'll bite them if they get past me? No. He's just a frightened dog doing what he feels he has to do to deal with a situation. Popping him in the neck, kicking him in the stomach, choking him etc isn't going to do anything to change how he feels about other dogs. Yet that's exactly what CM would do. That's exactly what he's done to other fearful dogs.
He never does that with fearful dogs!

My dog wants to either dominate or avoid new dogs, never submits. He is nervous of new dogs though and will not let a dog who is showing dominance smell him. That is why he got attacked so often prior to the young dog. The young dog is confident submissive. He will approach any group of dogs and when they charge him, he stands perfectly calm until every dog has smelled him as much as they want. He has never been attacked. He has taught the elder dog a lot of social skills and there is rarely a problem now. Before, the elder dog would trot through other dogs extended territory with tail and ears up and would not stop and be polite. If the dogs were adamant about smelling him there would be a skirmish. Perhaps shy dominant is a better description. Just like me
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smokeybear
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03-08-2011, 05:51 AM
No answer on my question re exercising your dogs whilst you are driving a vehicle then?!
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BangKaew
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03-08-2011, 06:08 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
Ok well, tell me that everything you are saying is not mostly straight from CM (book or tv).

In other words, his patter is being swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Wys
x
Only because it makes so much sense to me. As you say, I am an armchair trainer, but Cesar has shown me that by the intensity of my energy and the tone of my voice I can be pack leader. Cesar showed me how I can connect with my dogs by travelling with them, me in the car. Cesar said a pack travel is very important and I have seen he is absolutely right. The elder dog is right by my window by the side of the truck. Our bond is from that, not from bribing and clicking at him. Basically my main interest is dog psychology, why a dog behaves and thinks like it does, and Cesar provides that. I have no interest in tricks. I love to watch the beach dogs interact and know pretty much what is going on. Most other dog shows are more about the trainers talking I have found.
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smokeybear
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03-08-2011, 06:11 AM
It does not occur to you that your dog may be right by your window due to fear?

Fear that you may abandon him?

This is a very dangerous (and lazy) way to exercise a dog and really demonstrates your views on dog rearing in a nutshell.
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BangKaew
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03-08-2011, 06:15 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
No answer on my question re exercising your dogs whilst you are driving a vehicle then?!
it is the only way I can go out with them and of course it is on dirt tracks through jungle and fruit plantations mostly. Very few cars or motorbike. Only farm dogs

Is that ok with you Smokey?
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BangKaew
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03-08-2011, 06:19 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
It does not occur to you that your dog may be right by your window due to fear?

Fear that you may abandon him?

This is a very dangerous (and lazy) way to exercise a dog and really demonstrates your views on dog rearing in a nutshell.
Absolutely not. They run all over the place in the beginning but when we are travelling he likes to be there.
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Wysiwyg
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03-08-2011, 06:37 AM
Originally Posted by BangKaew View Post
Cesar often talks about noticing the look a dog gives another dog right before a fight and I have seen it many times when beach dogs crowd my nervous-dominant elder dog.
Nervous dominant is a contradiction in terms . Even CM has to go on ethological descriptions - but he prefers to make up his own.

Wys
x
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Wysiwyg
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03-08-2011, 06:38 AM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
This makes no sense. How can a dog be both nervous and dominant at the same time?

....
Snap Sarah, just realised you posted about this too

Wys
x
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