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Apache
Dogsey Senior
Apache is offline  
Location: Cheshire, UK
Joined: Apr 2012
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14-01-2016, 06:10 PM
As a long time German Shepherd owner your post struck a chord with me.
At 11 months your dog is still very young so you have time to help her. She is obviously suffering from anxiety, which then results in the fear aggression.
As others have said, you must prevent her from causing any injury to others by muzzling her. Is she ok about you fitting the muzzle?

Regarding her fear of people you need to turn the scary situation into a positive situation. This is known as BAT training (Behavioral Adjustment Training).

It goes like this. Use a special phrase when a strange person appears in front of you and give a treat. Lets call it "treat time" which you say in a fun encouraging way.
You always use the ‘treat time’ phrase whenever your dog looks at a person and should always be followed by the treat. At first it may be necessary to change direction to avoid the stranger, but with persistence you will build up an association of "strange person means treats" and you can then get a little bit closer each time. It might take a months of doing this every day, but eventually your dog will become more relaxed and you in turn will become more relaxed.

Please also avoid any confrontational interaction with her, so do not shout at her as this will only increase her anxiety. Keep calm and assertive, use a voice that a teacher would use to a class of children. Does she get excited when the door bell goes or the post man delivers letters? If so try avoiding action, maybe fit an outside letter box so the "bad person" stops coming.

I was also going to suggest that you should look into using a covered crate for the back of the car to prevent her from seeing cars going past, but you say that is not possible. Its quite a common problem and maybe you could try diverting her attention with a pet corrector. Its just a can of compressed air but it emits a loud noise and may help when she barks at cars. Obviously don't point it at her, just let her hear the noise and gauge her reaction. You should only have to use it a few times to get her to be quiet. Here's a link.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...ilpage_o08_s00

You could also consider Kalm Aid tablets for her, it may help to pacify her, they are available from pet stores or mail order..

Also does she get enough exercise and mental stimulation? GSD's need something to do, they love to carry objects, sticks, balls, tied ropes.

For inside the house try some brain games.

http://www.babble.com/pets/10-brain-...tain-your-pet/

My dog loves the muffin tin game where he has to lift the ball to get at the treat. I also get him to find objects in the house. Try hiding her favourite toy or ball and get her to search for it. All this is to build her confidence and lower her anxiety levels.
I do wish you the best with this, you are the best judge of how much more you can take but it is obvious you love her very much and want the best for her.
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Crysania
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Location: Syracuse, NY USA
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15-01-2016, 11:20 AM
Have you discussed medication for anxiety with your vet? I don't know if that's even possible with her host of other medical problems, but that may be something to think about.

I'm going to be honest -- this dog sounds like she has very serious anxiety and her early experiences during some of the most important socialization time for a dog were very bad. It's unfortunate and there's not much you could do since she was so ill. The unpredictable nature is what worries me the most. And it worries me even more with the introduction of a baby. Don't believe for a second that she will definitely be ok with the baby. Sadly, I suspect she's not going to be. Especially when the baby starts to walk. I've known dogs who have no issues who have gotten uncomfortable with toddlers. A dog with these kinds of anxiety issues? She's unfortunately very likely to be terrified by a toddler's strange movements.

It's also possible she's in some pain from all her medical issues. And that can add to the anxiety.

Regarding the whole thing about not wanting to just keep her home, etc.? It's ok to keep the world away from her. I suspect she might be happier to have the world kept away, so that she has no reason to be anxious. Your post made me think of this blog post which I read recently:

http://www.yourpitbullandyou.com/no-...eeting-my-dog/

In all honesty, I WOULD be considering euthanasia. Not just to protect others and your baby, but because she may be suffering too. It's not all about physical pain, and if she's mentally so anxious that she can't go anywhere, see anyone without falling into these anxious behaviors, is it kind to her to keep her going like that? To let her live with near constant anxiety and potentially in pain from her most of medical issues? And I worry that she IS going to be constantly anxious with a little one around. It's not the answer you want, I know. You've done so much for this dog, but it's possible she can't overcome her issues and it may ultimately be kinder to HER.
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Littlen
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Location: Cumbria. Uk
Joined: Apr 2011
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Female 
 
16-01-2016, 02:20 PM
Thankyou to all of you.

I have tried anti anxiety meds before but to be honest they don't make a difference.

As I said she is totally calm and relaxed at home and if nobody is around but it's impossible to stop the world for her. She is a very high energy working line bitch and I just dont think I could stimulate her enough at home. She loves going out and gets so excited when we leave the house I dont think IT would be fair to not walk her.

I am considering euthanasia, however am trying to explore every possible avenue before I make a decision I can't go back on.

The dogs would be seperate from the baby at all times anyway, but if she was to show anxiety around the baby then that would be the final straw. However, I'm not sure if it will get as far as that at this stage.

Her medical condition is not a painful one provided she is managed correctly.

I also remembered last night that she did have some bad experiences with dogs as a puppy which won't have helped either. It's a shame as I feel like I have messed her up
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Apache
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16-01-2016, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Littlen View Post
Thankyou to all of you.

I have tried anti anxiety meds before but to be honest they don't make a difference.

As I said she is totally calm and relaxed at home and if nobody is around but it's impossible to stop the world for her. She is a very high energy working line bitch and I just dont think I could stimulate her enough at home. She loves going out and gets so excited when we leave the house I dont think IT would be fair to not walk her.

I am considering euthanasia, however am trying to explore every possible avenue before I make a decision I can't go back on.

The dogs would be seperate from the baby at all times anyway, but if she was to show anxiety around the baby then that would be the final straw. However, I'm not sure if it will get as far as that at this stage.

Her medical condition is not a painful one provided she is managed correctly.

I also remembered last night that she did have some bad experiences with dogs as a puppy which won't have helped either. It's a shame as I feel like I have messed her up
Don't despair, I am sure there are things you can do to help her, you are all she has. Is there anyone she trusts to walk her apart from you?

When visitors call she should be out of the room. Then lay a food trail to the room so she may enter. The visitors should be completely passive with her, just a hello and leave it at that, except perhaps a treat.No excitement, no eye contact. This is to convey a calming experience and no threat.

Preparing her for your baby.
Go to the Dogs Trust web site where they have sound files you can download of a baby crying. It's called Sound Soothing.
Play at a low level so she can hear it and get used to the baby noise.
Then get kids stuff in now, talcum powder, nappies, toys and introduce them to her one at a time so she will know there is nothing to fear. Bring the cot in the room so she can see it and smell it. Investigate baby gates and where you will locate them. All this should be done now, well before the baby comes along and then your pup will treat all the smells and sounds as nothing new.
Hope this helps
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Littlen
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Location: Cumbria. Uk
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16-01-2016, 03:22 PM
Thank you Apache.

She actually is pretty good with people she knows. She can be walked by by partner, parents, in laws and sister. She is good when these people come to visit, she is excitable and gives them plenty of kisses along with trying to play with them.
The problem comes with strangers, she will eventually settle with most people as long as they do not try to touch her. Likewise on a walk she will walk past people with a bark or maybe a lunge but if they reach a hand towards her she lunges forwards. I don't know what would happen if she made contact though.

It's the same with dogs, off lead she is very submissive and cowers if a dog is dominant towards her. She would never fight back but yelps and runs or hides if it's becoming too much but on a lead she is invincible and would take on a Great Dane if I let her! I don't walk her off lead though as she greets dogs by barking and running up to them with her hackles up and I don't want to start a dog fight or scare people.

We are planning to put the baby gates up tonight, mainly because she is so clever and can open every door in the house which is not ideal when trying to keep her away from people or dogs.

She occasionally comes to work with me and she will settle nicely in her crate around people as long as they don't interact with her. If they try and touch her she will lunge at the bars and bark but never growls. She would however lunge at people who tried to stroke her when she is on lead so I usually muzzle her just incase. I have lots of people who can treat her for me at work but she is very untrusting and won't take treats from anyone but me which makes life a little more difficult.
She is also much better with confident people, she seems to feed from people who are nervous or who flinch when she barks at them.

At home she is very gentle with everything that lives here. She played with the kitten and knows when not to bother the cats. She is definatley submissive to my second dog and accepts when she is being told off by him. She also has never growled at any of us or even so much as looked at me badly. I can clip her nails, brush her teeth, inject her and pretty much do anything at all with her and she accepts it completley but with strangers it's a different story alltogether! I would never ever trust her around people if I wasn't there to supervise.
It's a bit of a mess really!
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Apache
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16-01-2016, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Littlen View Post
Thank you Apache.

She actually is pretty good with people she knows. She can be walked by by partner, parents, in laws and sister. She is good when these people come to visit, she is excitable and gives them plenty of kisses along with trying to play with them.
The problem comes with strangers, she will eventually settle with most people as long as they do not try to touch her. Likewise on a walk she will walk past people with a bark or maybe a lunge but if they reach a hand towards her she lunges forwards. I don't know what would happen if she made contact though.

It's the same with dogs, off lead she is very submissive and cowers if a dog is dominant towards her. She would never fight back but yelps and runs or hides if it's becoming too much but on a lead she is invincible and would take on a Great Dane if I let her! I don't walk her off lead though as she greets dogs by barking and running up to them with her hackles up and I don't want to start a dog fight or scare people.

We are planning to put the baby gates up tonight, mainly because she is so clever and can open every door in the house which is not ideal when trying to keep her away from people or dogs.

She occasionally comes to work with me and she will settle nicely in her crate around people as long as they don't interact with her. If they try and touch her she will lunge at the bars and bark but never growls. She would however lunge at people who tried to stroke her when she is on lead so I usually muzzle her just incase. I have lots of people who can treat her for me at work but she is very untrusting and won't take treats from anyone but me which makes life a little more difficult.
She is also much better with confident people, she seems to feed from people who are nervous or who flinch when she barks at them.

At home she is very gentle with everything that lives here. She played with the kitten and knows when not to bother the cats. She is definatley submissive to my second dog and accepts when she is being told off by him. She also has never growled at any of us or even so much as looked at me badly. I can clip her nails, brush her teeth, inject her and pretty much do anything at all with her and she accepts it completley but with strangers it's a different story alltogether! I would never ever trust her around people if I wasn't there to supervise.
It's a bit of a mess really!
Kay
I think you can work on this. Did you read my previous post to you about BAT ... Behavior Adjustment Training? Get some high value treats and use the key phrase " treat time" whenever you see someone approaching. It really does work.
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Littlen
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16-01-2016, 04:26 PM
I am definatley going to give this a go!
I tried this morning while walking her but the treat wasn't enough to stop her lunging at dogs/people. Maybe I didnt have enough of a good treat though?
Her favourite thing in the world is squeezy cheese from a tube although it's hard to not get the stuff everywhere!
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Dibbythedog
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16-01-2016, 04:49 PM
It means you are to close to the other person /dog.
You need to be at a distance where she can see them but not close enough that she kicks off. Feed her treats when she is looking at the dogs but not barking or lunging , be ready to do an about turn or move away if yo get too close.
Once she kicks off , her brain is flooded with hormones and it takes a while for her to clam down .
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Apache
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16-01-2016, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Littlen View Post
I am definatley going to give this a go!
I tried this morning while walking her but the treat wasn't enough to stop her lunging at dogs/people. Maybe I didnt have enough of a good treat though?
Her favourite thing in the world is squeezy cheese from a tube although it's hard to not get the stuff everywhere!
Good for you.
The treats initially wont be enough to stop her being anxious and aggressive.
In the early days you may need to change direction, cross the road, do a u turn, to avoid closing in on the threat of the bad person.
The treats and your special phrase "treat time" are to condition your dog that the sight of a stranger means yummy treats and is therefore a really good thing.
It may take a few weeks to work, but keep at it and she will eventually become more relaxed on your walks.
Keep us updated on your progress and don't lose hope. Persistence is all.
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Dogloverlou
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Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
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18-01-2016, 07:22 PM
I'm sorry to hear of your problems with your GSD. Sadly, this isn't unusual from what I understand in dog's that are removed early from their mother & littermates. So I'd think a lot of her behaviour stems from her early development.

I may have missed it, but you say you've tried anti anxiety meds but they haven't worked? Was these prescribed by your vet/behaviourist? Was you given a behaviour modification programme to work with along side the use of the meds? Meds alone will have little to no effect and are really only beneficial if you're working to change the underlying causes as to why she's so anxious.

With a dog as anxious as she is I'd be avoiding ALL walking spots in and around other dogs/people. As you've discovered people are idiots and even if you tell them not to approach they still do anyway! If you drive is it possible to walk her daily somewhere quiet and out of the way?

Is she muzzle trained? You may want to consider one as not only would it prevent the worst happening, but you may feel this gives you added confidence in knowing she can't injure someone. Do you walk on her a no pull harness or head collar? Again, this will give you added control and prevent you from being dragged/feeling like she's in control.

Apache has some really good advice The thing with anxious dogs is working at their pace. As Apache said, in the beginning you may need to do emergency u-turns ( I like teaching a touch command for this as it gives the dog something to do as well. So for example, you train a touch to hand, spot someone approaching in the distance, cheerily say 'touch' with your hand out whilst performing an emergency U-turn and get out of there ). You tend to find anxious dogs have a very obvious threshold point, that's what you need to find and is where a good behaviourist will really be beneficial too in helping you to figure that out. You then work under threshold in all situations. If she refuses treats then she's over threshold IMO and already stressed/hyper vigilant. Does she enjoy toys? She may like that as a reward instead depending on the circumstances.

Ultimately, for the time being I think you need to restrict her access to people, or rather their access to her and really need the help of a decent behaviourist who knows what they're doing.
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