Can't cope with aggressive 11 month old.

Hi, sorry this will be long but I have been in tears all day and don't know what to do.

From the beginning, I have an 11 month old german shepherd who I was given at 2 weeks old from a breeder as she was ill and rejected by her mother. I hand reared her and discovered she had a serious heart problem as well as afew other medical issues (non painful but need management)
She had serious heart surgery at 7 weeks and spent time in and out of vets for lots of her young life, X-rays/bloods/iv catheters etc.
She is now healthy but needs lifelong special care (relevant as this is a reason she can't be rehomed, that and cost of medications would put anyone off)

In many ways she has grown up to be a lovely dog, she is very intelligent,loyal and affectionate. She gets on well with my other dog and cat. She is very submissive and has never ever shown aggression to me or my partner or immediate family. She was very well socialised and came everywhere with me from 3 weeks old so no issue there. She attended puppy classes and was very bright although even at that young age she wouldn't socialise with strange people or dogs and preferred to sit by my side at all times.

The problem is with strangers and the outside world. She barks and lunges at people and other dogs constantly. She has bitten another dog and would bite a person who got too close although I've never let that happen. She will stand on her hind legs barking and snapping and is very strong to control. I can't snap her out of this and it starts from a huge distance (ie so far away I have only just seen the person!)
She is aggressive in the car, and barks and lunges at the back windows as we pass people.

Recently she attempted to bite someone who tried to touch her on a walk. She was on lead and in a sit position but someone reached a hand out as they passed and she snapped at them.
She also recently snapped at a friend who she has met a handful of times who put their hand out for her to sniff, she was calm and sat with my other dog and I warned the person not to touch her but they tried anyway and she lunged to bite but I managed to stop her as she was on a lead.

Obviously all of these incidents I could have prevented but was caught off guard both times as I thought the person was just walking past or had been warned, both times I pulled her back just in time.
When she goes she barks and snaps at the same time but will make contact towards the offending person.

I saw a behaviouralist registered with adpt when she was 6 months and worked with her extensively with positive reinforcement for months but she never improves. She does not trust anyone and will snap at them even if they have the best treat or toy in the world, nothing is worth letting them touch her for. She had previously attended dog training classes up until this point with a positive trainer who was happy for her to be left alone and warned others in the class to give her space.

She does not like other dogs in her space but gets on okay with dogs once introduced. She is very submissive around dogs and would yelp if one approached her rather than bite. The time she did bite she was cornered and a dog jumped on her back so I kind of didnt blame her for that.

I then saw a vet behaviour specialist as a last resort who thinks she has been damaged so much by negative things happening as a puppy she trusts nobody but us and she reccomended euthanasia as she does not feel she is able to be fixed enough to be safe. We also discussed neutering but she feels the risk of anaesthesia is too high.

I am now at a loss as to what I do now. I have tried positive reinforcement since she was tiny and it won't work. I take every precaution with her I can. I only walk her where there are no people, I keep her seperate from people and muzzle where necessary. She is never off lead unless there are 0 people around but still I keep finding myself in situations I didn't expect and I am worried I can't make her happy. My life is miserable with worrying about her.

Like I said rehoming isn't an option due to medical and behavioural issues and euthanising her would be the only valid option if I decided I couldn't keep her. She is a lovely dog at home but I can't keep an 11 month old puppy at home forever can I? She is happy with us where she feels safe but outside she can't cope with anything and the fear aggression comes out, only she attacks first before anything can get at her.

I'm not sure what im asking for...maybe some soloution neither behaviouralist has thought of or some hope that this can be sorted out before I have to make a decision about her!

Even worse now is that I am due to have a baby in 6 months and I can't see how this can possibly work, how can I have strangers around her? How can I walk with her and a baby knowing she could hurt someone?
I don't think the baby is at risk, she is so loving at home and has never hurt a family member but realistically can i cope with managing her safely

Congratulations on your expected baby .

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with your GSD . What is her name . Its heartbreaking to read , you have put such an effort into helping her.

I've met many fearful GSDs , it is often a mix of genetic disposition and upbringing . The age she is now , she is going through so many changes and it seems she is not able to cope with the outside world .

You could try contacting a Behaviourist from APBC

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/index

they may have more experienced and different methods than anyone from the ADPT and will give you a behaviour modification plan to follow.

It may be possible to improve her behaviour over time but you will always have to be vigilant .

If you want to take her anywhere in the car is it possible to put her in a crate and cover it so she cant see out ?
There are places that rent out fields or paddocks to exercise dogs in .
You wont be able to walk her with a baby and buggy but does that matter ?
Also , if people come to the house , you will need to keep her away from them for safety's sake . Do yo have dog gates up ?
If she gets so upset at going out , she might prefer not to be walked . How big is your garden ? how much time would you have to play with her and stimulate her . There are brain toys etc .
could your partner walk her late at night or early morning ?

Hi Dibby! Her name is Ivy. I think I concentrated so much on trying to keep her alive that I didn't think of her mental health. I didn't meet her parents but her breeder was not a good one and I can only assume she did not temprement test either. She also has bad hips and no papers.
She has been through so much and I think she just can't cope with people around her any longer.

Thank you for the list, I am willing to try anything and will contact someone!

Unfortunatley I can't crate her in the car as my car isn't big enough to fit one in! Both dogs are in the boot with harnesses/dog guard.

At the moment we do not have baby gates but we are planning to put some up very soon. She does not cope well with being shut out of rooms and howls/cries and scratches doors. I don't know how she will be with strangers behind a gate, she will proberbly bark and growl while they are here I think. I am worried about this with a baby and the noise waking baby up etc etc.

My garden is tiny hence tbe walking issue. It is big enough for the toilet and a break with some fresh air but not really big enough to throw a ball around. She also hates to be left alone so if I was to walk my other dog she would bark and cry at being left, so its often easier to take her along. I already walk her very early if possible but my partner works away so I am home alone lots of the time, hence I would have to take baby in a sling on a dog walk or the dogs won't get walked. I can't afford a dog walker and have no friends or family who could help me out and I wouldn't trust anyone anyway. I pretty much only have the dogs!
Both dogs are reasonably large, 30kg roughly each and it's not fun trying to wrestle her past others while holding on to the second dog and not get pulled over. I walk both in headcollars for this reason. I also walk her in a vest with nervous and yellow dog nervous lead. It didn't stop people touching her though!

At the moment they have a routine as i work from home so they are with me all day, they have toys and at least 2 long walks a day and I don't think she would fare well without any excersise.

Thanks a lot for your reply- I feel better writing it down!

Hi Littlen, I'm sorry to hear things haven't worked out despite your best efforts.

The only thing I can think of that may have led to this is either a bad experience at one of the vets that has made her distrustful of strangers or an underlying health condition. Does your vet think there may be some other underlying issue?

I think muzzling her when out in public is a good idea, particularly for the safety of others.

With regards to your baby on the way, I think only you can judge whether you will be able to trust your dog - and I don't think anyone will judge you if you feel you have to rehome her as it appears as though you have done your best to help this dog.

Counter conditioning is used to treat Fear aggressive dogs by most behaviourists. This link gives an idea of whats involved.

http://www.training-your-dog-and-you...ditioning.html

I agree with Azz that you have done such a lot for Ivy and there is no shame in rehoming if you feel she could be a risk to your new baby. You can only do so much and safety is paramount. I would add that's there no shame if you decide to have her put to sleep if you feel that is best for her .

yousay quote "Recently she attempted to bite someone who tried to touch her on a walk. She was on lead and in a sit position but someone reached a hand out as they passed and she snapped at them.
She also recently snapped at a friend who she has met a handful of times who put their hand out for her to sniff, she was calm and sat with my other dog and I warned the person not to touch her but they tried anyway and she lunged to bite but I managed to stop her as she was on a lead.

Obviously all of these incidents I could have prevented but was caught off guard both times as I thought the person was just walking past or had been warned, both times I pulled her back just in time.
When she goes she barks and snaps at the same time but will make contact towards the offending person." unquote




You are not going to like what I post I know, but someone has to point out the harsh realities

The thing to think about is if your dog did bite someone. Apart from being up in court for having a dangerous dog in a public place, the first thing is the court would order the dog destroyed. Also you may well be banned from owning dogs, on top of that the person bitten would sue you for possibly thousands of pound depending on injuries caused.

What makes it even worse is your knowing your dog is liable to do it at any time

Rehoming is not an option either, you can still be liable in effect for handing over a dangerous weapon ,as the law would define it.

With having to look after a new baby as well a dog can easily get jealous and attack anything new. A new baby with the noise they make could be all it needs.

yes I know it is not what you want to read and not really the type of thing I want to post.


I had a dog which I owned for a few years then suddenly went for my wife the a few days later went for me. So I could not risk it attacking any of my clients who came onto my property. Very tough decision but in the end it was a one way trip to the vets. Did it upset me? you bet it did but I just could not justify the risk.
So I am posting from experience not just say so.

It is terrible that some breeders are producing such horrible temperament (and health) in GSDs. This breeder is the type I hate to see. It isn't fair to the dogs or the new owners. The pup was also rejected by mom for a reason. If this person breeds regularly I wonder how many times that has happened.
You have made your best efforts with her. If you don't feel you can safely handle her or that your baby will be in danger you might have to euthanize her. Alternatively you could continue to try behavior modification but you still need to keep others safe from her. When people come over you should crate her or put her in a separate room. This way she doesn't have the interact with anyone or feel threatened. When walking you should seek a place you are not likely to run into people. You could use a muzzle too but she can still become stressed out when she sees people.
No one can make the call about your baby. She might be fine with the new addition or she might be an obvious danger. Just because she is gold with immediate family that she knows now isn't the same as bringing in a new family member. She could also be okay with the baby but in the future not okay if she feels threatened by a young child. You have to use your judgement.

Thank you to everyone who has replied, lots to think about.

As I said I would not be able to rehome her, she would have to be euthanised. She costs well over £100 a month in medication alone, she has a special diet which is very expensive on top of this and also her life expectancy is very unknown so I don't feel it would be fair. She has only ever known us and wouldn't cope with a huge change.
I ended up with her as the breeder wouldn't pay for her treatment and I wanted to give her a chance, although I see how I didn't think about her mental health after having no mother or siblings etc.

She had lots of horrible experiences at the vets, chest drains/injections every hour/stringe feeding etc etc so I'm not suprised she can't cope any more. It wasn't the vets fault as it was that or she died. At the time she was weeks old and I thought it would be short term for her to have a long life.

Despite all of this she is very happy most of the time. She loves cuddling up to me, she plays with her toys and my other dog, she is friendly at home with people she knows. She also loves going for walks in places there are no other people. She runs and plays like any other dog. She also attends agility classes which she enjoys and she also goes on group dog walks which she manages fine in her group of 'friends'

However, she is also very unpredictable and this is the side that scares me. I don't think she would attack the baby judging by her home behaviour but I can't be sure. My partner does not want to euthanise her as he adores her and she him. She has always been very gentle with the other pets and us.

When the baby comes we will be keeping both dogs seperate anyway (beind baby gates unless we are supervising closely) but again this is a worry for me as she has never met a baby before! The trainer thought she would be okay as long as the baby is seen as family but didn't know.

I found a trainer last night and am tempted to book another assessment, however it's another £60 and I have already seen 2 others so is there any point of she is going to tell me what I already know?

I am sorry to say this but tumbleweed has said it and I was about to. You must think of the safety of others. Sorry but that is how it is in this world. So make it peaceful and do the safe thing for her as well as you and others. So sorry.

Exactly, she will probably be great if she sees the baby as family, but you don't know yet if she will our not. You will have to cross that bridge when you get to it. See how she reacts.