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zoeyvonne
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13-05-2012, 08:20 AM

Neutering advice please

I added this question to my Introducing Sasha thread but thought i'd get more replies if I opened a new thread thanks.

Also on the back of a thread I read about a dog getting fear aggression after a neuter, am now worried as was going to get Samson done as well as Sasha in due course and he was quite a nervy boy although he is much better now and although he is fine off lead with other dogs he has started barking while on lead?? Is this a sign of fear aggression and should I just look into getting Sasha spayed? any advice welcome as I don't want a set back for Samson as much as I don't want pups, When is the best time to get Sasha done in that case? Also read about the injection to stop the first season so I can spay her later, lots of mixed messages about it all, and I will get my vets opinions too but want to build up a solid idea of what is best according to varied opinions and experiences as obviously the vets opinion is only from 1 point of view, thanks kindly for tolerating my endless questions also Samson is 6 months and Sasha is 4 months
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nickmcmechan
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13-05-2012, 08:22 AM
I don't thin the spaying will help with any aggression issues (start another thread about that one in the training and behaviour section )

I also think they are too young to spay.
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zoeyvonne
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13-05-2012, 08:27 AM
Oh he is not aggressive just excited to play with the other dogs, the reason I ask is that I read somebody else have the problem of aggression after the dog was neutered, I do not want them neutered to stop aggression, only to avoid pregnancy but just worried there maybe side effects I should consider.
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nickmcmechan
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13-05-2012, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by zoeyvonne View Post
I do not want them neutered to stop aggression, only to avoid pregnancy but just worried there maybe side effects I should consider.
I did a lot of research on it when considering when I neuter Max. I got great advice here and elsewhere and I came to the conclusion that it was best to wait until he was 2 yrs old +
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SuperflyBadger
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13-05-2012, 08:38 AM
Maybe when Samson is old enough you could try the Superlorin implant? It is supposed to have the same effect on a dog that neutering would - however only lasts 6 months? You could try this first to see how his behaviour may or may not be affected?

Good luck! Geez - I remember growing up we had dogs all our lives in our fambo - and they all just got on with it - now everything as a dog owner and the decisions we have to make for our beloved pets feels so alien huh!! Welcome to the 21st Century - no flying cars or us living in space - but our dogs sure keep us on our toes!!
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smokeybear
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13-05-2012, 12:53 PM
I think I gave my opinion on another thread?

It sounds like your male is going through the second fear period (from about 6 - 14 months) and it may not be wise to neuter at this time, however I know you are between a rock and a hard place with two entire dogs of both sexes.
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JoedeeUK
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13-05-2012, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by zoeyvonne View Post
.....

Also on the back of a thread I read about a dog getting fear aggression after a neuter, am now worried as was going to get Samson done as well as Sasha in due course and he was quite a nervy boy although he is much better now and although he is fine off lead with other dogs he has started barking while on lead?? Is this a sign of fear aggression and should I just look into getting Sasha spayed? any advice welcome as I don't want a set back for Samson as much as I don't want pups, When is the best time to get Sasha done in that case? Also read about the injection to stop the first season so I can spay her later, lots of mixed messages about it all, and I will get my vets opinions too but want to build up a solid idea of what is best according to varied opinions and experiences as obviously the vets opinion is only from 1 point of view, thanks kindly for tolerating my endless questions also Samson is 6 months and Sasha is 4 months
As far as I know the Delvosteron has to be used not more than 1 month before the season is due to begin to postpone a season, so if your bitch hasn't had a season your vet will not be able to advise correctly when to have the injection done.

TBH I would not neuter either untill after puberty. I have 3 entire dogs, one spayed bitch & one entire bitch(who I hope to breed from)& keep a careful watch on my entire bitch & never ever leave the boys with her unsupervised at any time & separate them all the time she is in season.

Steve Dean(a vet)reported on a recent BVA small animal congress as follows

Are there any pros to early neutering? by Steve Dean

At the recent British Small Animal Veterinary Congress one of the contentious issues was the subject of early neutering. Neutering dogs (and cats) at an early age, often as early as three to four months old, has become increasingly popular. However, several concerns have been raised about the potential ill effects arising from neutering a dog before it is mature. A recent effort to review the incidence of urinary incontinence, often thought to be more common in the spayed bitch, failed to prove a link with neutering despite finding plenty of published information but equally, the review, failed to dispel the theory either.
An RSPCA vet made a good case for neutering rescue dogs at an early stage. His argument was straightforward – because a charity often has only one opportunity to intervene and influence a dog’s future life, it makes sense to act when the dog is in their care. Evidently, many of their rehomed dogs do not return for further treatment and even if the new owner leaves with a voucher for neutering at a later stage they often do not use it.
Less impressive was the constant reference to lower cost being a significant reason for early neutering. It would be more digestible to hear a charity would be concerned to choose the time to neuter in the best interests of the dog and not because it improved the balance sheet. Nevertheless, it is worth noting that the RSPCA deals largely with dog owners who are the least likely to consult a vet or take a responsible attitude to an unwanted pregnancy. Thus this does influence their attitude towards early neutering schemes.
By way of contrast, it was refreshing to hear that the RSPCA recognises there is a lack of data to support early neutering. However, the charity still argues for early neutering mainly believing this contributes to reducing the stray or abandoned dog population. A further justification for early neutering is a lower likelihood of surgical complications in a young bitch. All this may be sensible for the rescue dog, but is this a sensible justification for the general practitioner to use?
The concept that neutering reduces the number of dogs requiring rehoming was strongly challenged by an Australian veterinary surgeon. She was a strong advocate of better education about dogs and their care. Her reasoning suggested how neutering was used more for the convenience of the owner and its intent is to make the dog more acceptable to live with. However it appears there may be an argument for not neutering based upon its affects on canine behaviour.
Assuming the public has unreasonable expectations of the relationship with their dog, surveys have revealed how poor behaviour is cited as a major reason for rehoming or euthanasia. In particular, barking and boisterousness are major reasons quoted for parting with a dog. Since most puppies often do both extremely well this is worrying. Furthermore, the public has a poor understanding of characteristic breed behaviour.
The genetic basis of behaviour is well established. However, in terms of neutering, removal of the reproductive organs at an early stage may coincide with a period of development when a maturing puppy is highly socially sensitive. Such periods are associated with changes in mental chemistry and it was argued this is not the right time to neuter and thus derange the normal hormonal changes expected around this time.
Veterinary surgeons often recommend neutering for aggression yet only about a third of aggressive dogs respond positively. Add to this the probability of greater cognitive impairment in older neutered dogs and this raises the question of why neuter dogs at all? This alone could be considered controversial yet a cancer specialist went on to state how early neutering in some breeds could increase the risk of bone cancer.
It is well known that early neutering delays the closure of growth plates in the long bones and in large breeds, already prone to developing osteosarcoma, this increased period of growth may double or triple the risk of bone cancer development. Further evidence suggests an increase in prostatic adenocarcinomas associated with early castration. In bitches it is generally accepted that neutering reduces the incidence of mammary cancer but in neutered bitches mammary tumours are more likely to be malignant.
The big surprise, however, was the revelation relating to the assumed benefit of early neutering in respect of the reduction in mammary cancer. It apparently is based on some dubious science. Vets have been educated to believe that spaying a bitch before her first season produces a dramatic reduction in the incidence of mammary tumours but it appears the data supporting this is very weak.
The last of the quartet of veterinary speakers dealt with incontinence, which is frequently associated with neutered bitches. It is however difficult to prove this link whereas obesity has a much clearer association. Lack of development of the vulva is also associated with neutered bitches but this expert’s view was obesity was more significant here, too. However, the accepted association between spaying and obesity does have to be taken account of.
Yet one issue was clear. Where an individual bitch suffers from juvenile vaginitis, it is more difficult to resolve if the bitch is neutered before her first season. In contrast it is worth noting how the condition often resolves if the affected bitch has a season. A case was made therefore for at least delaying the neutering of high risk breeds or dogs with specific diseases? Those breeds that suffer a high incidence of bone cancer are clearly logical candidates and indeed in some breeds it may be better not to neuter at all.
Returning to mammary cancer, the oncologist confirmed how little we know about the true incidence in entire bitches but added evidence to suggest removal of small growths at an early stage significantly reduces the risk of these tumours becoming malignant. Thus suggesting a timely, early surgical removal of small mammary tumours could be as effective as routine early neutering
Even in male dogs, in the lower urinary tract, transitional cell carcinoma is more common in neutered males and prostatic cancer, which is also seen in castrated dogs, is not currently a survivable cancer. At the end of the debate there was growing support for a more considered approach to neutering although nearly everybody understood why rescue dogs might be neutered routinely. However, even here, there are arguments that suggest public education might be more effective in reducing the numbers of unwanted dogs.
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SarahJade
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13-05-2012, 03:27 PM
A very interesting post.
My biggest regret with my current dog was having him neutered at 6 months. I don't want to neuter my next dog, but don't think I will be able to get a rescue dog without having them done.
Is there was a way to sterilise them without changing the hormones and removing body parts? I know about the injections and inserts but these change hormones too.
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smokeybear
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13-05-2012, 03:34 PM
Google Zinc Gluconate injections, not sure if they are available in the UK yet.

Remember Superlorin is reversible too.
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zoeyvonne
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13-05-2012, 03:50 PM
I am kind of swaying to leaving Samson entire and spaying Sasha after 1 or 2 seasons (dependant on how Samson deals with it the first time), I have memories as a kid of my goldie getting very anxious and crazy when our ckc came into season never had either done but he was very upset while she was in season, if separating them works for you how does your male dog deal/cope with it???????????
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