As I've said before, my posts relate to gundogs. I cannot comment on sheepdogs as I have no idea about them, other than they seem to like to bite me!

A well bred show Springer (by that I mean one with the working instinct intact, which is the only way a Springer should be imo) can quite easily do the job it was bred for, Isla's breeder sold one of her dogs to their gamekeeper to help him with his livelihood. He said he felt the dog was better suited as the working type Springers tended to go mad and flush every single bird in the vicinity which is not what small, wild shoots want. The small, short working Springer is often bred to compete in field trials to be fast and flashy looking to the judge (ring any bells????) - not what the breed was originally bred for. Working Springers look the way they do not because they do the job better, but because the breeders couldn't give a rats ar$e about how the dogs look. Which for a person passionate with the breed is simply just not good enough.

There are some breeds that I think perhaps need more attention than others, and the KC should look carefully at these if they are not doing so already. It would go a very long way to putting the show stock into a more favourable light. Working strains tend not to throw up pronounced problems because of sheer necessity they need to be bred from sturdy and healthy lines.

From my (yes, limited) experience I have seen the following :

Liver chestnut cocker spaniels with an extremely nasty streak.....so much so that the owners of three that I know of would never let them near children. This is not how I would normally view a Cocker, so what has gone wrong with the breeding of liver chestnuts? Why has it been allowed to continue, when all these dogs were KC registered and the relatives were still breeding like mad? None of them were working strain.

CKC spaniels - one who had to be put down because his brain became too big for it's skull; and three whose eyeballs actually eventually popped out of the socket. All of these were KC registered and had champions in their pedigree. These little dogs have the most glorious temperaments, and don't deserve to suffer such pain.


On the working strain side, I have not come across a single one with a breeding related problem.

For me, this is enough to convince me that until things change in the dog's favour re showing lines I am totally for the working strain.

Possibly we have bred them too big?

Can you aim me at the stats for ages and deaths please----I can't find them!

Small dogs seem to live longer generally. Both are an anesthetic risk---more so than usual.

rune

OK---found it. Here it is

Breed Exp.
(yrs)
Afghan Hound 12
Airedale Terrier 11.2
American Stafford. Terrier 12.3
Basset Hound 12.8
Beagle 13.3
Bearded Collie 12.3
Bedlington Terrier 14.3
Bernese Mountain Dog 7
Border Collie 13
Border Terrier 13.8
Boxer 10.4
Bull Terrier 12.9
Bulldog 6.7
Bullmastiff 8.6
Cairn Terrier 13.2
Cav. King Charles Spaniel 10.7
Chihuahua 13
Chow Chow 13.5
Cocker Spaniel 12.5
Dachshund 12.2
Dalmatian 13
Doberman Pinscher 9.8
Breed Exp.
(yrs)
English Cocker Spaniel 11.8
English Setter 11.2
English Springer Spaniel 13
English Toy Spaniel 10.1
Flat-Coated Retriever 9.5
German Shepherd 10.3
German Shorthaired Pointer 12.3
Golden Retrievers 12
Gordon Setter 11.3
Great Dane 8.4
Greyhound 13.2
Irish Red and White Setter 12.9
Irish Setter 11.8
Irish Wolfhound 6.2
Jack Russell Terrier 13.6
Labrador Retriever 12.6
Lurcher 12.6
Miniature Dachshund 14.4
Miniature Poodle 14.8
Random-bred/Mongrel 13.2
Norfolk Terrier 10
Old English Sheepdog 11.8
Pekingese 13.3
Breed Exp.
(yrs)
Pomeranian 14.5
Rhodesian Ridgeback 9.1
Rottweiler 9.8
Rough Collie 12.2
Samoyed 11
Scottish Deerhound 9.5
Scottish Terrier 12
Shetland Sheepdog 13.3
Shiba Inu 14
Shih Tzu 13.4
Siberian Husky 13.5
Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier 13.2
Staffordshire Bull Terrier 14
Standard Poodle 12
Tibetan Terrier 14.3
Toy Poodle 14.4
Vizsla 12.5
Weimaraner 10
Welsh Corgi 11.3
Welsh Springer Spaniel 11.5
West Highland White Terrier 12.8
Wire Fox Terrier 13

I'm sorry but do you honestly believe just because you haven't experienced/seen something it doesn't exist?

Working type breeders linebreed/inbreed in exactly the same way show breeders do as they're trying to consolidate specific traits. It's often this breeding that produces genetic health problems. The majority of working breeders (ime) don't health test which means they're a hell of a lot more likely to produce a dog with a genetic health problems. So please explain how they're bred from "healthy" lines? Or are you another person who seems to think because the dog can work it must be healthy?

Being bred from "sturdy" lines means diddly squat I'm afraid unless the health tests provided are utilised!

I doubt there are any "official" stats, but its known that the breeds I have mentioned dont often go into "old" age. Its extremely rare that you ever see a Wolfhound or a Borzoi in the veteran stakes etc..

Yes small dogs on the whole live longer, Id agree with that, Pugs and Pekes being two of the best at it!

The last I read the median death age ofr a Borzoi was just 9yrs. For a Wolfhound just 7yrs.

Borzoi is 11 on one website.

Norfolk Terrier is a surprise?

rune

i wouldnt of thought pugs.. none of the ones ive ever known have .. but yorkies..they look wrecked..but go on fooorrreeever.

I got mine from the KC surveys into owners, where did you get yours from?

This is an interesting site which charts breeds and longevity.

http://users.pullman.com/lostriver/breeddata.htm

Breed data on Pekingese shows that in a U.K. owners survey, with a low representation of seven dogs, the longevity was 13.3 years (same as Borderdawn's data and possibly the source?)

When higher representation numbers were surveyed that average age at death for the Pekingese breed was ~ 11.5 years.

As I have an interest in Tibetan Spaniels I was encouraged to see their average age at death was 14.42 years over 125 dogs.

This is another page from the site which discusses the topic of size/weight and longevity.

http://users.pullman.com/lostriver/w...d_lifespan.htm

Ruby