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Chris
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17-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
I understand you disagree and understand that people 'think' their is a connection between dress and behaviour, but people dont actually explain why or how that is so?
Rules! A good place to start from day one to show that there are both rules and order within the school.

Discipline! Having to take at least some pride in appearance so as not to be pulled up in school for sloppy way of dressing.

Identification! Cause havoc whilst wearing the uniform and people know which school you attend.

Equality! No matter how poor you are, you are not wearing your poverty like a beacon as everyone else is wearing the same as you.

School uniform isn't the magic pill, but maybe, just maybe, the start of putting some order into the lives of what seems to be a very disorganised younger generation not forgetting, of course, their parents who also have to implement at least one rule themselves in making sure that their child is neatly turned out in the uniform of the school that their child attends.

For example, if their is a logical connection (and their may well be?), how do yu explain my examples of america and denmark?
Without looking back, I don't know what those examples are. However, I don't think it logical to compare one country against another as each country has its own unique culture

Also, im no fashion expert, but i think the studded pink hair brigade are 'anti designer label'?
In as much as they rebel against the uniform of dress code, be it suits, school uniform, or urban designer street wear (which, by the way, inner city UK and USA, you can get killed for wearing incorrectly, or opting, for example, instead, to dress like a studded goth.
Isn't that part of the point? Many youngsters rebel and think they are reinventing the wheel when it comes to their own uniform (even pink hair with studs/goth etc are all uniforms). Ensuring that they conform in at least one area of their life is a least in some small way a form of discipline.
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Chris
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17-08-2011, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Oh yes, I remember that bit well it was the 60's though the age of the original mini skirt!
Yep, and wasn't it a devil to get the pleats to hang right when the waistband was turned over three or four times
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Krusewalker
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17-08-2011, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
Rules!

Tick - Agreed. Are you saying you cannot have this without a school uniform. Really? If so, how do you explain Denmark?

A good place to start from day one to show that there are both rules and order within the school.

Tick again - see above

Discipline!

Tick again. Are you saying you cant have this without a school uniform. Again, how do you explain Denmark?[/B]

Having to take at least some pride in appearance so as not to be pulled up in school for sloppy way of dressing.

Is it about having pride in ones appearance, or being concerned about being pulled up?

Identification! Cause havoc whilst wearing the uniform and people know which school you attend.

that true, but only in terms of time. it would be likely found out anyway. once out of school though, wouldnt the police be trying to find out your address and parents?

Equality! No matter how poor you are, you are not wearing your poverty like a beacon as everyone else is wearing the same as you.

I have covered this in previous posts, their have been reports recently of schools pricing parents out of uniforms, so that is a good indicator to ones peers of your 'poverty', especially if you have to get your uniforms second hand. Although i do have some sympathy with this point and this is the only aspect that i can see that might make a good reason for school uniforms.
But kids will still find out if you are poor.


School uniform isn't the magic pill, but maybe, just maybe, the start of putting some order into the lives of what seems to be a very disorganised younger generation not forgetting, of course, their parents who also have to implement at least one rule themselves in making sure that their child is neatly turned out in the uniform of the school that their child attends.

But you are forgetting they already are wearing school uniform and are still as they are. So doesnt that undermine your own argument?


Without looking back, I don't know what those examples are. However, I don't think it logical to compare one country against another as each country has its own unique culture

Bingo!

Exactly the whole point i have been getting at.
And therein is the Real Problem and Real Answer.
As i said in my very first post, its nothing to do with clothing per se, its the context of the culture it exists in.
Otherwise, by logic, denmark would have the same youth problems as UK, or america's youth would be peaceable like denmarks.

Hence my post talking about the Scandinavian social democratic model and the anglo american capitalist model.
One society highlights greed, materialism, consumerism, celebrity culture, from the youth, the police, journalists, politicians, footballers.
Another highlights social conscience and civic duty.
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Chris
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17-08-2011, 11:37 PM
Ah, now I get your context in respect of comparisons to other countries.

The problem, as I see it here, is that we have let things slide badly into the state we are now in today. We really do have to start again. I agree with you that many schools do have uniforms and yet still seem to have little discipline, but this tends to show in the liberties allowed to be taken with that uniform - many, many variations on a theme.

I also agree that kids soon learn who the rich kids are and who are the poor, but the point is that they all start with a clean sheet when there is a 'proper' school uniform and, of course, poverty and richness isn't advertised on a daily basis by the type of clothes worn. I don't know how things work now with the schools who do have 'proper' uniforms, but in my day, when parents couldn't afford the cost they got help and schools asked parents to take in outgrown uniforms which were handed out to those who really had no means to buy them. None of the kids, or parents knew which children benefited from these handed in clothes.

I think we can clearly see that throwing money at this particular problem isn't enough. Sure, bring up the poorer areas and provide more facilities, but with tax credits, NHS, housing benefits etc, I really don't think that 'poverty' can be used as an excuse for those riots.

Society is starting to crumble. It's been on the cards for years and unless we actively get back to values and respect, it will continue and escalate.

School uniform (proper school uniform) is maybe a drop in the ocean of bringing back some rules into our declining standards. Bringing the press into line would be another major step as would allowing our police to police the streets without the fear of retribution for often justifiable actions.

Turning the tide from emphasis on commercialism to social conscience and civic duty is a biggie that will take many, many years to achieve. I'm sure that a lot of us older end will tell you that in years gone by the majority had a social conscience and a good sense of community. Now, it has spiralled downwards, but not everywhere.

Six years ago I moved to a coastal/rural village. Yes, the kids do wear immaculate uniforms and are unbelievably polite compared to the kids where I lived previously. Walk your dog at school turning out time and move off the pavement to let them pass and I'll guarantee you'll get a stream of kids all saying thank you . Neighbours look out for each other and do each other good turns. If someone is ill, people go to make sure they are ok and provided for. It's how it used to be and so very refreshing.
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Dobermann
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20-08-2011, 08:19 PM
I think we can clearly see that throwing money at this particular problem isn't enough. Sure, bring up the poorer areas and provide more facilities, but with tax credits, NHS, housing benefits etc, I really don't think that 'poverty' can be used as an excuse for those riots.
Not sure what the implication is here?

Poverty is not an excuse for riots, however poverty and culture, environment, linked health inequalities etc are all there but thats heading off again.....in relation to school uniform, what do tax credits have to do with it?

There are parents who will not be recieving HB, CTB, Tax credits etc and will have the same income as those who do. and vice versa, there will be those on benefits who cannot afford what other parents can...

School uniform (proper school uniform) is maybe a drop in the ocean of bringing back some rules into our declining standards. Bringing the press into line would be another major step as would allowing our police to police the streets without the fear of retribution for often justifiable actions.
Where I live the police do not walk the streets because they dont have enough of them, not because of retribution etc. Those are not sole reasons for ploice officers not 'walking the beat'
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