I have been on both 'sides'

TBH I couldn't give a fig if you said all working springers were cripples and all wsd's were ugly-----it doesn't bother me what anyone thinks. If I wanted to prove anything it would be that any dog I owned could enjoy and be capable of whatever activity I chose to do with it.

The one dog who isn't happens to be show bred but that was bad luck----I think!

rune

Yes to the middle bit.

Also have to remember most dogs are going to the pet market and they aren't always easy if they have a highly developed work ethic. And I'd include some lurchers and JRT's in that.

rune

Owning a breed that has a pretty distinct seperation (within the breed) and having worked and lived with both I have to say, I perfer my working line.

They just seem to have more energy, more versitility, less health problems, more drive, etc..

I definitely will always have a working line (GSD) in my life.

Yes, I kinda of put that into the health category but otherwise, absolutely!

Rips can I ask (because I find this interesting) a) where did someone suggest that ''show people go wrong because they only breed with looks in mind''? and b) what is the source of your ''proof that the vast majority of them (working type springers) aren't health tested''?

Re the Queen Anne legs.

Where did this Come from?

U see lots of Working terriers & working Spaniels, Now to me it looks like a "weakness" but if these dogs are bred for "purpose & Work" then i dont understand ? is it a weakness? or a result or breeding shorter dogs because they are the better workers ???????

I honestly DONT know!!!! Hence the question!

aesthetically queen anne legs look wrong, we have had a few through rescue with them, doesn't stop them doing anything, the working springers seem to differ by area, you tend to find the larger ones down south, more in the way of cover crop, the further north you go the smaller they get more in the way of close cover brambles etc to get through, they have been bred for the conditions of the area they maybe working.

most people that work their dogs don't give a rats about pedigrees or registration, they'd rather have a dog off a mate with a proven working dog, now the field trial guys well thats a different matter, they're like the show people they just want a dog to win competitions and to put £'s on when they breed

If no one focused on the appearance of a breed, we would have no breeds.

Appearance is more that aesthetics, its conformation, a breed is bred (working breeds) to fit a criteria... and to ensure a dog can do the job its bred for , someone has to focus on appearance..


You have your own proof Pidge, in Woody, his parents were not health tested... and most people who have been round the " shooting " fields will be able to back that proof up.


I know many people who work and breed both working and pet/farm bred Springer, and I can tell you hand on heart, none health test.

In fact when you do the maths, the working type far out numbers the show Springer... and as the working type is one of thee most over populated breeds in the country, the statistics are rather shocking dont you think.


Queen Anne legs are a deformity, they are not bred for a porpose, a working Springer is meant to work all day on the move, a dog with deformed legs is one that will have a very short career and suffer joint problems.


The only criteria a working breeder will look for is the drive /ability of the dog to work, regardless of its looks or conformation, the fact said dog may be deformed and have a very short working life will be irrelevant... he (breeder) will just use said dog to produce more of the same to carry on doing the job.

So thats how its got in the lines then?

That they could be Exceptional workers/ winners, so are used/ bred from?

How long a "working" career is a Queen Anne legs dog expected to have? anyone know?

Have you found in your Career that Queens Annes legs, cut a career Short?
Are they Better /worse/ no difference at working than Straight legged springers?
Do the QA legs occur only in the Shorter dogs, bred for close cover or are they also in the Taller Lines (ie does one crop up occassionly in the taller lines)

Do these dogs get bred from?

Im geniunely Interested

At one point Springers were VERY large, Im told that breeding for size alone bought in the queen anne front, through "miniaturising" them. This is also evident in "miniature Jack Russells" I havent ever seen a Patterdale/Border/Lakie or JR working type with these legs, except a couple very small Jacks out Ratting.