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IsoChick
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Location: Preesall, Lancashire
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28-02-2011, 03:18 PM

Am I the cause of Max's behavioural problems?

I think I am the cause of Max's behavioural issues

He is (with me and OH) extremely dog reactive/aggressive. He can't be off lead near other dogs, in fact, he can't walk on lead anywhere near other dogs without lunging and barking and trying to attack them (even if they are on the opposite side of the road, minding their own business).

He will attempt to bite anyone who comes anywhere near us if we are out on walks, or wants to talk to me. He won't even be stroked by anyone wanting to pet him. If they are brave enough to get past the raised hackles and standing on hind legs, furious barking, he will snap at their hand (whilst wagging his tail and leaning on them).

He has bitten every vet in the practice, and several vet nurses (he is now muzzled on vet visits). He has bitten my FIL (though frankly, I would too if I had the chance) whom he has met several times before.

However, whilst he was at the vets without me (for an op) he was the perfect dog. He wasn't muzzled, and let the VN's etc do all the pre-op stuff, including the needle into his leg, without restraint of any kind. He was absolutely wonderful with them until they handed me his lead in the waiting room, and he turned around and snapped at the surgeon who was speaking to me. She had been holding his lead prior to this, and stroking him; and he had been leaning into her and wiggling to be petted.

He and Murphy were in kennels for a night over this weekend, as we were at a wedding. They've never been in kennels before. There was a kennelmaid they know on duty and she was able to observe his behaviour.
Max was absolutely fine with other dogs (though he wasn't walked with any of them, or put into a run etc with them). Usually, with me holding the lead, he would be in a frenzy trying to get to the dogs, kicking off and barking. He completely ignored them all.

All the kennelmaids etc were able to go in and fuss both the boys, including the kennels owner (a huge big guy, who sent Max doolally the first time he saw him, trying to attack him).

They were absolutely fine the whole time they were there, then, as we walked back to my car on picking them up, Max turned round and tried to bite the kennel girl who had just handed me his lead....

I don't get it. Is he overly protective of me? Do I transmit something down the lead that makes him like this?
How can I make him stop?
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Murf
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28-02-2011, 03:26 PM
How do you react now when you see another dog ?
Is it impossible to ignore other dogs ?
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krlyr
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28-02-2011, 03:27 PM
Have you seen a behaviourist? As there's aggression involved I would definately recommend a behavioural assessment (would recommend the APBC list of behaviourists to find one locally) rather than trying to deal with this solo/with advice off a forum (I know we have a few behaviourists on here but imagine you would need an assessment in person to deal with this best)
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IsoChick
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28-02-2011, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Murf View Post
How do you react now when you see another dog ?
Is it impossible to ignore other dogs ?
I've tried ignoring other dogs and his behaviour; and I end up literally dragging him down the road/path behind me whilst he leaps and growls and barks and does the standing-on-2-legs-boxing-business at them

I've tried stopping, and distracting him with treats etc when we see another dog, and I end up having to hold his collar whilst he leaps and growls and barks etc (as above).

If we see another dog who we're not going to come into direct contact with (i.e. same side of the road) I just carry on walking, and try and ignore them, or pre-empt the tantrum by using treats.

If it looks like we are going to be near enough to touch, I will go off the path and make him sit and face the other way etc, then he isn't staring the other dog out in readiness to pounce....
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IsoChick
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28-02-2011, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by krlyr View Post
Have you seen a behaviourist? As there's aggression involved I would definately recommend a behavioural assessment (would recommend the APBC list of behaviourists to find one locally) rather than trying to deal with this solo/with advice off a forum (I know we have a few behaviourists on here but imagine you would need an assessment in person to deal with this best)
I've not seen a behaviourist yet; though we have done 4 years of weekly dog training!

He is pretty much fine in a class situation (though he has a real dislike of black labs and gsd's). He has done up to his Silver Good Citizen, but couldn't get it as he won't let anyone except me touch him (to go over him like a vet or judge would).

We stopped going to class mainly as we couldn't progress to the next level, as neither dog would do a 'hold' or a 'retrieve' without trying to kill the item That's what happens when you try and train a Boxer like a gundog
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labradork
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28-02-2011, 03:52 PM
I would honestly think about trying a behaviourist too, as his aggression sounds quite serious to say the least.

Was he socialized at all as a puppy (assuming you have had him since he was puppy)? I doubt he is "protecting" you from absolutely every other person/dog/living thing you come across, because a stable dog should not be seeing all 'normal' things as a threat.
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IsoChick
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28-02-2011, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
Was he socialized at all as a puppy (assuming you have had him since he was puppy)? I doubt he is "protecting" you from absolutely every other person/dog/living thing you come across, because a stable dog should not be seeing all 'normal' things as a threat.
Yup, we've had him since he was 8 weeks old (we picked him out at 3 days old, and visited him at least once a week until bringing him home). He has been really well socialised - puppy classes, weekly training, organised walks with other dogs in new and different locations. Both dogs come camping with us, get taken all over the place etc. I did loads of work when we moved house a few years ago on getting the dogs used to agricultural vehicles, livestock etc, that they'd never come across before.

The only thing I can think of, is that we see less dogs (and people) now generally, because of where we live and the times we now walk at (rural location, early morning and late evening walks).

I would describe him as fairly 'highly strung' though, whereas Murphy is much more easy going.

I've probably done something inadvertantly to make him neurotic...
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labradork
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28-02-2011, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by IsoChick View Post
Yup, we've had him since he was 8 weeks old (we picked him out at 3 days old, and visited him at least once a week until bringing him home). He has been really well socialized - puppy classes, weekly training, organized walks with other dogs in new and different locations. Both dogs come camping with us, get taken all over the place etc. I did loads of work when we moved house a few years ago on getting the dogs used to agricultural vehicles, livestock etc, that they'd never come across before.

The only thing I can think of, is that we see less dogs (and people) now generally, because of where we live and the times we now walk at (rural location, early morning and late evening walks).

I would describe him as fairly 'highly strung' though, whereas Murphy is much more easy going.

I've probably done something inadvertently to make him neurotic...
Could be fear based aggression if he is highly strung...resulting for whatever reason in an 'I'll attack before being attacked' mentality.

If he is insured your insurance might cover behavioural consultations, so it is well worth reading the small print in your policy.
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smokeybear
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28-02-2011, 05:02 PM
We stopped going to class mainly as we couldn't progress to the next level, as neither dog would do a 'hold' or a 'retrieve' without trying to kill the item That's what happens when you try and train a Boxer like a gundog

Not sure I understand this comment?

Do you mean that you think Boxers cannot be trained to retrieve?!

Because of course they can and there are several Boxers with Schutzhund and Working Trials qualifications to their names!

However it does sound very much like you ARE the trigger for a lot of behaviours and I wonder why you have not approached a behaviourist before now?
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IsoChick
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28-02-2011, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
We stopped going to class mainly as we couldn't progress to the next level, as neither dog would do a 'hold' or a 'retrieve' without trying to kill the item That's what happens when you try and train a Boxer like a gundog

Not sure I understand this comment?

Do you mean that you think Boxers cannot be trained to retrieve?!

Because of course they can and there are several Boxers with Schutzhund and Working Trials qualifications to their names!
Oh I know they can, but unfortunately, the trainers couldn't see why it was a bit harder to teach a Boxer to do this, when they predominantly teach Labs and Spaniels (rural area, you see). They couldn't give me any extra help other than "push the dumb-bell into his mouth, then hold his mouth shut" and wondered why the dogs weren't 'getting it' and I wasn't happy...

Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
However it does sound very much like you ARE the trigger for a lot of behaviours and I wonder why you have not approached a behaviourist before now?
Money mainly; as in, we don't have enough to even pay for an initial consultation (most of the ones I have seen are charging £90+; and we haven't got that sort of money); plus I'm still trying to find a trainer/behaviourist in my area, that I can get to without having to do over an hours drive.

Plus, over the last year or so, Hevvur (my sister - also on here) has been really poorly, and family have come first in terms of time etc.

However, our financial circumstances have changed slightly (for the better!), plus Max's behaviour at the kennels (i.e. 'normal' without me around) has spurred me on to sort it out...
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