Starting Seizure medication (Epilepsy)

Last night Maya had her 4th seizure in 10 days,the other was Saturday.
We just got back from the Vets & we were told once her blood work comes back OK for liver function, she'll be on Phenobarbitol.

Until recently it's been one seizure a month at the outside, but now we're over the threshold apparently.... I'm worried the drug will make her act "dopey".
We knew this day would probably come, but it's still a bummer....
The Vet says after a week or two she'll be fine, has anyone else had experience with treatment, alternative or conventional?

Have no personal experience but that is the usual drug used and in most cases it works well, as your dog is not suffering frequent attacks I would expect it to work well and after a settling down period you will have your old dog back

Snorri-dog first presented with epilepsy when he was three: it was at about 2 in the morning, just after he'd been put to bed. As I was busy attending to his brother, the first I knew was when I heard his claws rattling against the side of his bed. I thought he was dying , because although I'd seen epilepsy in humans, while working as a psychiatric nurse, I didn't associate it immediately with dogs. Anyway, he "came to" in about two minutes, a bit staggery and covered in poo and wee, but otherwise OK. I phoned the vet the next morning and was told that it could well have been epilepsy, but not to worry. The next attack was four weeks later, then two, then one, until he had a cluster at 3 a.m. on 31/10/01. We phoned the vet there and then, and got him out of bed for a 4 a.m. emergency appointment. Snorri got a good checkover, then an injection to knock him out so that he could rest his muscles (by this time, I could have done with one, too ). The vet made an emergency appointment for the morning surgery, and, at this one, Snorri-dog was prescribed Phenobarbitone, 2 X 30 mg.per day.

As we'd been forewarned, the little boy was a bit "woozy" for a day or two, and he had a tendency to fall asleep a bit more (he has always been good at falling asleep, though ) and his appetite got bigger. Not a problem, though - we just let him sleep if he was in a safe enough place to sleep, and ignored his pathetic pleas for more food (we didn't want him getting fat!). he has never looked back, and the only attack he's had since was when we tried to wean him off the Pb (with advice). This last attack came after he'd been off the Pb for a week, so he went back on it. He has been 100% clear ever since, and his blood tests are good (as of last month).

He's in excellent health now (but still on Pb, as he will be for life), and enjoys his beach romps and garden "fetch" games as though nothing had happened. The "woozy" spell wore off very fast (the tendency to nod off), and now, the hard bit is not believing he's cured (he'll never be cured, just controlled: there is no cure for epilepsy )

Now, he's only getting 2 X 15 mg per day, half his starting dose, which will reduce any ill-effects of his long-term use of Pb: good for him, and good for my wallet (no point in filling him with more drug than he needs) ! The start-up dose is worked out by dog body weight, the 2 X 30 mg was based on Snorri's weight of about 23 kilos. A bigger dog will need more, a smaller one less.

Phenobarbitone is the control drug of choice, it's cheap, safe and effective. It is a barbiturate, and thus a controlled drug under UK law*, so keep it well out of reach of any kids that may be marauding about!

The very best of luck!

Snorri


* and, I'd imagine, under Canadian law, too?


"Epilpsy? What ****ing epilepsy? To Hell with it, I'm having fun!"

I am so sorry to hear that your dog is having seizures and I unfortunately now know how frightening it can be to watch and how indequate you feel when you can't do much to help your precious dog at the time, other than support his head. Also how demoralising it is when the seizures increase.

My Loki has also been having seizures and after tests to eliminate other causes, it has been put down to idiopathic epilepsy and he has been prescribed phenobarbital (PB) at 2 x 75 mg a day (he weighs about 26 kg).

The specialist we saw, and websites I've visited, have all quoted short-term side effects (of approximately 2 week duration) as drowsiness, possible mild stumbling, and long term increased thirst, urination and appetite. The drowsiness and stumbling should wear off when the dog gets used to the drug but will be seen again briefly if the drug needs to be increased. It is important to have blood tests at 2 weeks to check the drug has reached therapeutic levels so it can be adjusted if necessary and to have liver function tests regularly as this drug can damage the liver. The aim is to decrease the severity and frequency of the fits but it is not always possible to completely stop them and it is a balance between the effects of the seizures and good/bad effects of the drug.

Unfortunately Loki did not tolerate the drug and instead of being drowsy, he was terribly anxious and crying, staring at objects that weren't there, banging into things, pacing, ignoring commands, ultra-excitable, etc. This was only after two days so we've stopped drug treatment for now and are waiting to hear from the vet. You shouldn't halt treatment suddenly when the drug has reached therapeutic levels - the dog will have to be weened off slowly if this is to happen.

Some dogs have refractory epilepsy which means they don't respond to treatment (still have fits) and here the vet might add or replace with potassium bromide, which still causes ataxia problems but doesn't damage the liver. There are some new drugs too, which are only licensed for humans and are expensive (over £100 a month) so are not routinely prescripted for the dog.

In terms of natural/complementary help - I am looking into this too. Here is a list of things I have had recommended to try - I can't vouch for any of them yet but I'll try anything at the moment, in conjunction with the drug therapy or on its own if that's how things turn out (you might want to look at some websites/consult your own vet/a homeopathic vet for more advice; I would never advocate that you try these instead of the prescribed drugs):

Diet - elimate all processed dog food and treats/biscuits, in particular those which contain the preservatives ethoxyquin and BHT (be careful - some animal supplements contain these as antioxidants). Try to feed a natural diet - I have opted for raw meat, meaty bones, fish, veg. Eliminate salt as much as possible. Think about possible toxins within the home or outside (lead?) and in flea preparations and such like.

Skullcap/valerian - this comes highly recommended to me from a GHD owner who has had some success in seizure frequency reduction with its use in conjunction with 30mg x 2 daily PB

Taurine supplements
Vitamin C supplements
B vitamins

Don't over-feed the dog on PB but break down the food into snacks in order to keep up its blood sugar levels

A small amount of good quality vanilla ice-cream before bed may help to keep blood sugar levels stable during the night.

Bach flower Rescue Remedy (can be bought from health shops/Boots etc.) - some owners highly recommend this as possibly reducing the severity of the seizure and/or aiding recovery

Acupuncture

There has been some talk about an ice-pack placed roughly about half way down the back during a seizure helping to reduce its severity. Not intended to shock the dog.

Milk thistle - a herbal remedy used to prevent liver damage. It has actually been shown to help with liver regeneration too.

Some websites to look at:

[url]http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

http://www.canineepilepsy.co.uk/Linx/linx_vetoquinol.htm


And do try contacting the canine epilepsy support group, a registered charity - you can give them a call and speak to someone - they have a conventional/homeopathic vet, a top neurologist and a herbalist/holistic specialist and can give far better advice than me. I tried to ring them today but it was too late so will be speaking with them myself tomorrow.

http://www.canineepilepsysupport.co.uk/

I wish you the very best of luck in getting through this and if you find out anything new, do share - you're not alone.

http://www.canineepilepsy.co.uk/Linx...vetoquinol.htm


And do try contacting the canine epilepsy support group, a registered charity - you can give them a call and speak to someone - they have a conventional/homeopathic vet, a top neurologist and a herbalist/holistic specialist and can give far better advice than me. I tried to ring them today but it was too late so will be speaking with them myself tomorrow.

http://www.canineepilepsysupport.co.uk/

Thanks Thordell, Snorri & Lucky. I'll keep you up to speed for sure

Hi S/B, sorry to hear about your dog

Here are some sites I put the other day for Lucky Star, (did you see them LS?)


http://www.canineepilepsysupport.co...roupprofile.htm
http://www.canineepilepsysupport.co.uk/contactpage.htm
http://www.pcfce.org/

http://vetgate.ac.uk/text/browse/ca...bfa4244db7.html
http://www.irishwolfhounds.org/epilepsy.htm
http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Resources.html

Hi
'Dogs Today' magazine has an article this month about a dog with epilepsy, may be interesting...

Fortunately, I've never had to consider refractory epilepsy, as Snorri responded so well to his treatment with Pb, so I went and had a Google about, and came up with this:

http://www.canineepilepsy.co.uk/VetR...refractory.htm

HTH

Snorri
:smt023

There is also a site, run by the University of Missouri College of Veterinary medicine, at http://canine-epilepsy.net - it has a forum board which works a little like DW, where you can post questions and get answers: the moderators are vets and will often respond to direct e-mails. I've found it very helpful in the past. I don't think DW Admin will be "put out" that I've posted a link to another board in this case, as it's primarily a "help" board for epilepsy, not a "dog/social" board like DW!

Snorri

hello, not got much input on this one, but i do have a friend whos collie has died at 8 having epliepsy from age 1. What frustrates me about this is that her vet continued to vaccinate her yearly.... I asked her to talk about this last year, but she just follows what the vet says (he knows best)

All I can do is to encourage you to ask your vet (if he is advocating vaccinating through an illness like this) to look in the MERCK manual for vets... under vaccines it clearly states NOT to vaccinate an animal that is already immune compromised. To us this can be a huge variety of things, and unfortuantly you can't always tell by looking at an animal whether it has problems or not (kidney problems hide until very advanced for example). I think most vets use common sense with this, but as i have found some are just ignorant...but it is there, for them to read...please ask them. Vaccinating an already immune comprmised dog can have devasting effects.

p.s. another gripe of mine is that it also states that a 'side effect' of vaccinating can be death. They don't tell you that when you go in for a booster do they! (they try to keep it simple and low key so that more people do it yearly)
p.p.s. This is my personal opinion, so no offence intended.....the immune system is not finite, and when i say 'immune compromised' i personally feel a dog on a diet with poor nutrition is also immunosuppressed.