Am I rushing my puppy into going outside?

I recently became the proud owner of a Papillon puppy, 11 weeks old today!

All is going well, but I'd like some advice on her first venture outside.

I live in a first floor flat with no direct access outside. For the first fews days she's been happily living inside. I'm keen to get her happy with going outside to our large, quiet garden - not least for toilet training (at the moment we are puppy-pad training her with mixed success).

She is used to wearing a collar - but it is a kitty collar with bell as her neck is so small (her breeder got her used to it as the bell helps to avoid accidental stepping accidents!). I've bought her a harness, as the collar does not seem suitable for attaching a lead, and as she's so delicate I'll feel more comfortable taking her out with the harness.

I put the harness on her three times for about 5 mins today, aiming to get her used to it before taking it out. She cries as it goes on, and while wearing it becomes very shy and submissive, burying her head in my lap, or in cushions, or hiding under the table.

My OH said it seemed cruel to make her wear it in the house, and that we should get her used to it outside. I put it on with lead attached, and carried her down the flight of stairs to our lobby (she is too small to descend stairs atm). Put down, she froze standing up, with her tail jammed between her legs. With treats and coaxing, I persuaded her to gradually come through the door into the drive. There, she again stood still, shaking, and I sat with her for 5-10 mins, giving her treats and praise. She kept trying to creep into my lap, and thinking it was enough for today I carried her back inside (where she was clingy for a couple of minutes then fine).

Sorry for the TL;DR - I wanted to give a full story. My questions are:

- Should I continue taking her down, letting her progress towards the garden at her own pace?
- Or, should I spend more time getting her used to the harness, then lead, inside (and keep puppy-pad training for now)?
- Or, should I follow my family's advice, carry her all the way to the lawn, and hope she enjoys it there?

They think I'm over-indulging her atm, but from what I've read it's important to let pups find their own way to things rather than forcing them. Am I rushing her, or am I being over-protective? Any advice much appreciated!

Well I did think if you carried her down to the garden and had some fun with her there - she might look forward to going there again and not mind the collar/harness or whatever so much?

If it's a right upset getting her there in the first place she might stop wanting to go there?

Actually I know nuffink. I am sure someone else who will be more use will be along soon.

When I first got my little min pin - I used to put her little cat harness on her indoors and get her used to walking up and down a bit in it. She couldn't go down on the ground when out for even longer because she was very ill when I got her and had to start her jabs over again when she was better.

I got a dog carrying bag and took her everywhere with me in that so she would still get 'socialised'. She liked that! And there is a little clip in them for you to clip to a collar.

Firstly - get rid of the pads - they just teach your puppy that it is ok to go to the toilet inside.

Secondly - my pups got used to their harnesses inside, I'd put it on before each feed so the harness equals food - which in a dogs eyes is very good. Of course now my pup is older - harness equals exciting smells outside. But she still gets a treat when it is put on. It's something new - it'll take time to get used to, even though mine have only ever had good connotations with the harness - my youngest boy sulks/sulked when the harness is/was brought out and put on, but after the lead or food comes out he was right as rain - but then I know he doesn't like things over his head and his first harness was one that slid over his head.. The pup is alright as long as it doesn't take too long to put it on her.

Thirdly - let her go at her own pace, instead of standing there, sit down.. let her come outside in her own time. She is still learning to trust you so it is important to not rush her, however saying that, I just picked mine up and put her down - she soon forgot her fear and was sniffing away. And now she's out the door in no time.(Oops just read that you did the sitting down thing!)

Other than that I think you are the most clued up puppy owner I've met on a forum (apart from the experienced). Try your family's advice and see if it makes a difference. Take out a load of her favourite toys and just sit on the grass with her, play with her and just have fun.. she'll soon associate going out with having fun with you. I would never let a pup get their own way - it leads to adults being allowed to do so and also mixed signals from you. Just take your time, don't get frustrated and soon she'll be trotting alongside you.

Just a thought - do you have an extending lead? I board a Shih Tzu who is nearly 2 and she has to be carried out of the house otherwise there is no walk going to happen, but then on the walks she will freeze, so I put a flexi lead on her and that allowed me to walk off, she could either stay there or be a dog and follow me as I was the safest option. Puppies are very much velcro dogs between 8-24 weeks (or longer/less) so if you move - they're going to follow as you're the only thing they know. It also builds trust, if they follow you and nothing bad happens to them - then you earn more trust from them.

Oh and unless I missed it - we need pictures, I have a soft spot for Paps But you sound like you're doing well so stop worrying so much I would also enrol her in puppy classes - just so she has that extra socialisation and so you get the foundations of her training right

At 11 weeks you should by now have been carrying her outside to accustom her to the outside world.
Please will you get a good puppy book and follow it from whatever stage she is at now.
If you don`t help your puppy learn about the world now you will have big problems in the future.
The reason you don`t let pups out where other people`s dogs have been is in case there is infection there. Your pup should have been vaccinated by now and therefore have a resistance. You would not prevent her from going in your garden where your own house dogs go, because that would be pointless.
Just because your dog is small breed doesn`t make her any less of a dog - an animal that needs to enjoy sniffing about and playing in the fresh air.
Lose the puppy pads and house train her properly. You are simply teaching her that it`s OK to foul indoors, which means you`ll have huge problems when you visit other people`s houses etc.

I agree with C&D.

I got Rosie as 7 and a half weeks. From the day after we got her, we popped on the harness and carried her around many different places. Every now and then, I popped her down for a minute or so to give her chance to relieve herself, then picked her back up and carried her some more.

Living in a flat, I can well understand the use of puppy pads. It's difficult with young pups, but don't let that deter you from 'proper' house training - out after sleeping, eating, playing, drinking and every 20-30 minutes in between. Take note of when she 'goes' so you can get used to her 'habits' so that you know when she is likely to want to go.

Good luck with your girl and enjoy her. They really do grow up so very, very quickly

Firstly congratulations on getting a puppy - a very exciting time.

I have two dogs and got them both at 8 weeks (brothers). Although they couldn't go outside on the ground (public areas) until 2 weeks after their last jab, I did take them out in my garden. I also took them out in the car on a daily basis just to get them use to it. Although they couldn't go on the ground initially in public I would borrow a member of my family/friend and we would carry them out around the town so they could see/hear traffic etc in the security of our arms.

Naturally you don't want to do anything to upset your little one and make her fearful, but the trick is to make any new experience exciting and not scary. The more new experiences your little dog can have now the better. By the time ours were about 14 wks old they'd been to a train station, outside a school, seen heavy traffic, been to a rugby match etc etc.

If you can take her outside every few hours (more often if poss) and place her on the grass to have a wee and then praise her if she goes, the quicker you'll get her house-trained. Remember at 11 weeks she is still settling in and learning to trust you. Many problems that people have is simply that their pups do not understand what is being asked of them. Never smack her, try and ignore poor behaviour and praise/treat anything good.

Mouse my little pap was going outside right from the start at 8weeks, neither did I use pads.Took her outside every hour,after feeding ,sleeping etc,
As a breed I think they do "take a lend of you" and push their luck,but after all she still is adog, mine actually thinks she is a collie and enjoys nothing more than playing zoomies with my 12 week old GSD pup.

Bella in her little doggy bag strolling down the Prom with us one night.

Hi all,

Thanks so much for such friendly and helpful replies. It's so nice to get tips from more experienced owners - and you seem like a really friendly community

I'm reassured to hear it should be fine to carry her to the lawn at first. Thinking about it, she was scared and wouldn't leave her travel basket when she first arrived here - I took about 10 mins to coax her out with treats, but it was when I showed her a familiar toy that she ventured out happily and started playing and exploring. She seems more play than food motivated, so hopefully that will work with her outside.

I didn't try outdoors again today - it was torrential rain here, and while I know she has to get used to all weathers it wouldn't have been a great start for either of us! We practised harness - SLB, thanks for making me think of positive associations. I didn't do it at mealtime as her eating hasn't settled down yet (I've been worried she isn't eating enough, but she's got better since I switched to three feeds a day from her breeder-recommended twice). I put it on as she was coming out of her pen for play time, and while she still doesn't love it she's getting used to it.

@C&D - I've only had her for 4 days. She came from a lovely family home where she's been growing up with mum, dad and older brother. She's really well socialised and well adjusted, but may be a bit behind in outdoors experience and toilet training - from what I know she hasn't been outside at all yet and hasn't had any potty training yet either.

As well as a lot of online reading, I have two puppy books. A Cesar Milan one was recommended by a friend but I don't really like it - too anecdotal, and a bit 'conceptual' (i.e. vague). The other is Perfect Puppy in 7 Days by Sophia Yin - I prefer this. Using it, Layla already is good at 'say please by sitting' and we're working on 'leave-it' and 'come when called' (she's amazingly smart ). Yin's toilet training involves having her attached to me by leash constantly though, which doesn't seem that practical. I'm sure there must be a thread on recommended books on here, I'll have a browse around.

Finally, I'm happy to hear from a few of you to ditch the puppy-pads. As you say, they're nice in theory for apartment living, but I can see they're just teaching her it's okay to go indoors (also, she today learnt what fun it is to tear them up...) I'm going to start proper training tomorrow - thanks Brierley and others (and I am enjoying her very much )

@Tangutica - Layla will be doing a fair bit of travelling when she's ready for it, so glad your min pin enjoys - I considered them before falling in love with paps, and yours is adorable.

And as you did ask for pictures ... I'm in proud mama mode at the moment and snapping her all the time - although it's hard to get a good one unless she's asleep! Here are a couple of her earliest:

This is the one from her first home that made me think 'that's my puppy':


And getting to know my OH on her first night here - she's so tiny!

Gwen Bailey the Perfect Puppy would probably be more helpful to you.

Sophia Yin is good but reflects some of the more US approaches to puppy raising including tethering, which I cannot imagine doing with a toy breed.