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lilypup
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Location: West Sussex, UK
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16-06-2011, 07:06 PM

Seriously thinking of switching to BARF

I've been researching this as Lily already has a plaque build up on her teeth and she is only 2! It's pretty impressive to see the difference in raw fed dogs and commercial fed dogs.

I would appreciate any hints or tips and so far I have found a website (UK BARF club) that suggests switching food over a week and to use the 'nuggets' that are already blended as well as chicken wings.

I have changed my dogs diets already, eliminating rawhide and anything with colourings in it. So I feel they need something better and more interesting than the JWB kibble they are currently on.
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smokeybear
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16-06-2011, 07:12 PM
Raw Feeding Guidelines


Although many people successfully feed commercial foods to their dogs scores of owners are choosing to use fewer processed products in both their own diet and that of their pets.

After all dogs are not equipped with can openers or cooking utensils and were designed to hunt, catch, kill and feed on a wide variety of prey animals as well as to be opportunistic scavengers.

Dogs are scientifically classified as carnivores, manifest by their physique. They have eyes at the front of their head in order to observe potential food, jaws that move up and down, as opposed to the side to side movement present in omnivores/herbivores, no flat topped molars with which to chew and a shorter digestive tract reflecting the fact that they were created to consume little or no vegetation or cereals/grains.

Feeding a raw diet is often seen as somewhat revolutionary however it must be remembered that dogs have not only survived but thrived on such nutrition for hundreds of years prior to the advent of manufactured dog food.

One of the main concerns expressed by owners is that they cannot successfully replicate the scientifically researched diets that pet food companies quote as their USP (unique selling point). However, just as a degree is not required to adequately nourish ourselves, the same is true for our canine companions.

There is a plethora of information on raw feeding produced by qualified pet nutritionists and/or veterinary surgeons who have specialised in this field; therefore creating a satisfactory home diet need not be overly onerous or complicated for the ordinary dog owner.

Quantities

For adults approximately 2 - 3% of their bodyweight per day. Calculate this by multiplying 2/3 by your dog's weight and dividing it by 100.

Eg 2 x 30/100 = 600g, 3 x 30/100 = 900g.

For puppies feed circa 10% of their present bodyweight or 2-3% of their projected adult weight per day.

However be guided by your hand and eye; if the dog is looking a little too ribby up the amount and reduce if the dog is looking a little too well padded! Dogs will vary on their requirements depending on age, sex, activity level, temperament and time of year etc.

Frequency

Adult dogs should be fed twice a day for the following reasons:
• To minimise the risk of Bloat/GDV
• To avoid blood sugar fluctuations

Meats

Lamb, beef, chicken, turkey, rabbit, pork, venison, duck, hare, and/or anything you can get your hands on; some dogs regularly chow down on more exotic species.

Dogs require the correct calciumhosphorus ratio and so it is essential to feed raw meaty bones (RMBs) as well as muscle meat.

Offal such as hearts, lungs, kidneys, tripe, liver is also essential (although strictly speaking the heart is a muscle like the tongue).

Fish

Oily fish such as pilchards, mackerel, sardines, etc provide a good source of Omega 3; if it is difficult to obtain fresh, then tinned makes a good substitute. Tuna may contain high levels of mercury and is a less valuable source of Omega 3.

Vegetables

Onions must not be fed to dogs in any form as they can cause haemolytic anaemia which can be fatal. Avocados contain persin which can produce problems in some animals.

All other vegetables may be fed however, for a dog to get any nutritional benefit from vegetables, they must either be pulped or frozen, otherwise they go out the way they went in and can only be used as source of fibre.

Oxalic acid can interfere with calcium absorption; so don't feed too much of Spinach or Chard.

Care should also be taken not to overfeed vegetables from the cruciferous family eg cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swedes, turnips and broccoli to dogs as this may inhibit thyroid function.

Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and aubergines all belong to the nightshade family of plants. Dogs who have arthritis may be sensitive to these foods which may exacerbate their condition. It is doubtful if raw potato can be digested successfully in any case.

Garlic is a useful addition to the diet as it performs an antiseptic, antibiotic, antifungal function.

Fruit

All except grapes (and raisins) which can cause kidney failure and death in even very small amounts. Bananas are an excellent source of pre-biotics essential for gut health.

Bear in mind fruit and/or vegetables should not make up more than 10% of diet and can have a laxative effect!

Dairy

No animal post weaning consumes milk bar humans however live yoghurt can be very useful for poorly stomachs because of its probiotic content provided that dogs are not intolerant to lactose (milk sugar) and casein (milk protein). As puppies leave their dams equipped with a full set of teeth bones are a more appropriate source of calcium.

Eggs can be given raw each day, the shells are good sources of calcium but only when powdered, otherwise they merely provide roughage.

Grains/cereals

There is no proven need for carbohydrates in the dog’s diet and of course these need to be cooked before they can be successfully digested by the canine.

Books (in order of simplicity/accessibility)

• Switching to Raw by Sue Johnson
• Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy Schulze
• The Barf Diet by Ian Billingshurst
• Give your Dog a Bone by Ian Billingshurst
• Grow your pups with Bones by Ian Billingshurst
• Work Wonders by Tom Lonsdale
• Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale

Websites - Britbarf, K9nutrition yahoo groups the first is UK the second is an excellent US site,
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lilypup
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16-06-2011, 07:19 PM
Thanks for that SB, really helpful. I've favourited this page and will print that out. It seems quite overwhelming but as pointed out, dogs have thrived on raw food for years. It's so easy to chuck a handful of kibble in a bowl but the more I hear about commercial pet food, the more concerned I have become about feeding it to my dogs. I buy JWB as I feel it is one of the more superior foods both ethically and in it's content, but I would like to see if raw suits my dogs better.
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lozzibear
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16-06-2011, 09:00 PM
I remember when I started raw with Jake... i read about it for months before i decided to take the plunge because it was so overwhelming, but now it is a doddle... i do think back and wonder what the fuss was about

I do prey model with Jake, and he is looking great on it. Looking back at how he used to look with his allergies, and comparing him to now, it is like night and day! He is looking so fit and well, and his teeth are great!

I know it can be daunting but if you decide to go ahead with it, then you will soon get the hang of it
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lilypup
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16-06-2011, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear View Post
I remember when I started raw with Jake... i read about it for months before i decided to take the plunge because it was so overwhelming, but now it is a doddle... i do think back and wonder what the fuss was about

I do prey model with Jake, and he is looking great on it. Looking back at how he used to look with his allergies, and comparing him to now, it is like night and day! He is looking so fit and well, and his teeth are great!

I know it can be daunting but if you decide to go ahead with it, then you will soon get the hang of it
That's what I'm hoping will happen! It's just a case of me getting used to a new feeding regime I guess. What is prey model? Blimey, as a vegetarian I am not looking forward to it but my dogs are carnivores and I respect that.
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smokeybear
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16-06-2011, 09:12 PM
Don't get hung up on "models" of feeding; raw is raw is raw.

Everyone feeds their dogs slightly differently, labels just serve to make raw feeding more complicated than it needs to be.

You find out what your dog NEEDS, you find out which foods PROVIDE those nutrients and then you FEED it; simples.
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lilypup
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16-06-2011, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Don't get hung up on "models" of feeding; raw is raw is raw.

Everyone feeds their dogs slightly differently, labels just serve to make raw feeding more complicated than it needs to be.

You find out what your dog NEEDS, you find out which foods PROVIDE those nutrients and then you FEED it; simples.
I must admit that I for one, can make things more complicated than they need to be! I'm quite looking forward to seeing their reactions to getting 'real' food. They are good eaters anyway but there is a distinct lack of any meat in this house obviously. I just want to improve their quality of life and their health and I feel this will do it.
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x-clo-x
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17-06-2011, 08:21 AM
it took me a while to get my head round it but now i have its so easy, and i love preparing the dogs food

my dogs love their raw, daphni was such a fussy eater when she was on kibble and would miss meals for days at a time some times. now she loves meal times, gets so excited to see whats in her bowl, and eats everything every meal.

i know what you mean about the plaque and comercial food. daphni still has plaque on her teeth, im thinking of buying some plaque off to put on her food to clear it off. asbo has been fed raw from 8 weeks old, and has the shiniest white teeth ever.
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lozzibear
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17-06-2011, 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by lilypup View Post
That's what I'm hoping will happen! It's just a case of me getting used to a new feeding regime I guess. What is prey model? Blimey, as a vegetarian I am not looking forward to it but my dogs are carnivores and I respect that.
Like SB says, you don't need to get too hung up with the different models... but i personally found it helpful to choose roughly which model i wanted to feed, and then that gave me a better base, and i read more specifically about that model to get started. Prey model IMO is the more simpler one, and focuses on feeding as close to whole animals as can be done. The main differences of Prey model and what is recommended for BARF is PMR use whole foods, BARF suggest minces. PMR don't use veggies, BARF suggests you do. PMR don't use supplements, BARF suggests you do. Of course those who do BARF don't have to do it exactly like is recommended, and can do a variation. I have also read of PMR feeders who don't believe in giving tripe at all, and those who insist on feeding it... i personally feed it, and think it is a great thing for dogs to get. The models aren't set in stone though, so don't worry too much about them.

It just the same with the ratios, you don't need to stick religiously to them. Dogs are different anyway, some need more bone and some need less... Jake gets slightly more bone than what is usually recommended but he is doing great on his diet and no constipation (a sign of too much bone).

I hope I haven't confused you more
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