Dominance aggression...I think...

Hello!

We have two lovely dogs; one a long haired Jack Russell which we've had from a pup now 23 months and the other a rescue which we were told is a cross between a choc lab and Patterdale Terrier but I think there may be a Springer Spaniel somewhere in there too! (15 months old - we've had him since 7 months).
The main problem we have with the rescue choc lab x is that when they are play fighting sometimes he just goes too far and a full on scrap evolves which ends up with the JRT squealing and wimpering. There is never any blood drawn and he always gets bitten/pinned down on the back and side of his neck. Am I being soft and this is perfectly normal dominance behaviour? It probably happens once a day but they get on perfectly well the rest of the time. The only other time he shows some aggression is if he's just woken up and will growl at humans too then but that is not an issue as I do the same when I wake up! Forgot to say that they are both neutered!
Advice please x

It is not normal for a dog to wake up and growl, have you considered that it may be possible that your new dog may be in pain?

Have you had him checked over by the vet for any issues?

He could be stiff first thing in the morning and feel out of sorts, also if the dogs are playing he may not be able to take a lot of bashing.

The other issue is that terriers do tend to scrap.

I would not allow this sort of play if this was the likely outcome and I would intervene before it went too far.

I agree with the above, stop the play before it gets to the out of control stage....... again with the growling at you when the dog wakes, get him checked out by the vet, is his eyesight OK and so on.

I have a beagle x (rescue) almost a year old, and a Yorkshire Terrier, 10 years old. My two behave exactly the same, and when playtime occurs, the Yorkie (Molly) does snap quite severely at Mindy.

I spoke to our Dogsey friends about this, and was given some very good advice about intervening before it got that far, and even separating them.

We have now started to do this, and when they have got to fisticuffs, we do separate them for half an hour. Its a bit like putting the naughty child on the naughty step, but instead, we move Mindy to another room separated with a baby gate so she can still see us, and Molly gets a little time to quieten down. It also tells Mindy that she cannot get too boisterous.

It has really worked for us, they are now playing to a level where it is cope-able.

Try it. It might work for you.

Good Luck

If you had never heard the term dominance aggression how would you view this behaviour?

A big dog getting rough with a small one because he can?
Yes?
And what would you have done?
Stopped the big dog hurting the little one?
Yes!

Simples!

And you might want to look at these very good articles...
http://www.fun4fido.co.uk/blog/debun...ance-myth.html
http://video.pbs.org/video/1488005229/

Thanks for replying. I should have mentioned that both dogs have had a recent 'MOT' at the vets so no issues on that front. Regards the growling it's whenever he is lying down really not just when he wakes up. I guess that he feels vunerable in this position and is basically saying get out of my space but never backs it up. I have no idea on his past before the dogs home so maybe it could have something to do with that - he is getting better over time so I don't consider it an issue at this stage.
Deb; That's mor or less what we're doing now so hopefully it will be something that gets sorted out over time! Our only problem is that the playing doesnt escalate it just goes from normal play then wham all hell breaks loose for 10 seconds then back to normal play?!! I'll persevere then...Thanks again x

Without seeing things it is difficult to say as some dogs play and sound like they are killing each other but if you are sure this isnt the case then it is most likely they are getting overexcited playing and someone gives a nip thats a bit too hard
as others have said its best to just break them up to chill out before it gets too OTT and after a while they will learn to back off when things get rough

You might be right about a trust thing when he is lying down too
You can build up his trust in you when he is lying down with some simple tricks
grooming him and gently handling him when he is lying down (a c little at a time with lots of rewards)
Stay exercises again with lots of rewards building up to you stepping over him and running round him and stuff (build it up very slowly and if he looks uncomfy at any point take a step back)

mind you be careful what you wish for - my pair trust me not to step on me so much now when I come teetering in from the pub in high heels I have to be v careful of the sprawled out dogs

Hi, yes I agree with most of the comments, have it checked out by the vet. We have had terriers for nearly fourteen years only losing our youngest back in March.
Don't forget that the lab is new to your pack and it is wanting to make itself pack leader, what you need to do is become the alpha pack leader by asserting dominance over both dogs and each time they fall out, you make them both surrender and create a calm submissive state. Once you have achieved this, the pecking order aggression should stop. Both our dogs were bitches and not from the same litter, so arguments were frequent but I learned over time what to do and believe me it works.
We have now adopted a 5 year old Terrier called Milo, who is adorable who loves people but has never been properly socialised with other dogs. So now he suffers from anxiety lead aggression also as a pup he was savagely attacked by a GSD, so now he thinks that all dogs are a threat him. At the moment he is undergoing training to counter act this and he is responding very well. He has already been socialised with some calm mannered dogs and plays with them no problem.I know its going to take time as its not an over night fix. But he's worth it and we love him very much.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/...lo/MILO005.jpg

Anyway good luck and I know you can sort it.

Can I recommend you read Jean Donaldson`s The Cutlure Clash which is written by someone at the head of her profession with more qualifications than you can shake a stick at.

Excuse me!! at no point have I stated bullying, I was born into the society of bullying your dog and I totally disagree with the practice. I can assure you that all of my dogs are loved and not "bullied" as you state. I take pride in the fact that my dogs love respect me and I love respect them.
Looking into your statement with your bombastic lead training, I would say that you are the bully and not me.
If you read my statement properly, I say create a calm submissive state and make yourself the pack leader, you don't have to bully to achieve this. If you read the lady's statement, she already has love from both dogs and all I was saying to the lady was to make herself the pack leader I had to use this calming method with my dogs.
I take offence with your remarks, maybe you should put down your book of training the dogs the "Woodhouse way" and read a book on doy behavier and you will understand what I am talking about.