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coventrycatfish
Dogsey Senior
coventrycatfish is offline  
Location: Cheshire, UK
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 507
Female 
 
15-04-2013, 06:23 AM

Sudden change in behaviour - item/location guarding

A bit of back story first. When Guinness first came to live with us, we already had a (neutered male) cat, Tyr. Guinness was fine with Tyr from the beginning and often used to take toys over to him and play bow. He never showed any signs of possessiveness with his food, his bed or his toys, if Tyr wanted something, Guinness would sit back and let him have it. The sods even used to raid the kitchen bin together and share the spoils. Tyr died in April 2012. For months afterwards, Guinness used to go around poking his nose into the places where Tyr used to sleep as if he was looking for him.

Just before Christmas 2012, we adopted two young female cats aged approximately eighteen months and six months. To start with they were wary of Guinness, and apart from the odd sniff he totally ignored them. This did surprise me as he had wanted friendly interaction with Tyr from the word go (even though Tyr’s initial reaction to him was hissing and snarling). As they settled in, Sacha and Flora realised that Guinness was nothing to worry about and began to ignore his presence. This mutual ignoring has been going on for several months until very recently.

Within the last week or so, things have changed. Now, if either cat goes anywhere near (within about eighteen inches) of anything he views as his, he growls at them. He and Tyr used to drink from either water bowl with no issues, but if Sacha or Flora go anywhere near the one Guinness now regards as “his”, he growls (although he will still drink from the other one quite happily and doesn’t seem to care if they are near that). If they approach his bed (inside a crate that is usually left open) he growls. If he has left a toy or a chew on the floor and they go near it, he growls and comes charging out of his bed to grab it. He shows no reaction to cats when out on walks and takes no notice of ours unless they get close to “his” stuff.

He’s had a recent change of kibble (we ran out and weren’t able to get out for the normal stuff so had to settle for what was in the small local shop). Other than that he is still getting his raw meals, still getting the usual amount of exercise and the same amount of attention. The cats have not suddenly attempted to take over the world. Could a simple change of kibble be the cause? I wouldn’t think so, particularly as the rest of his behaviour is totally normal (for him).

We don’t want him growling at the cats. What can we do to get things back to normal? We’ve done the obvious stuff, such as making sure toys/chews are not left out, but that still leaves the areas around his bed and “his” water bowl to contend with. Should we move them to a new location in the hope he will be less defensive or would that make him more insecure?
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egroeg
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Location: Surrey UK
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16-04-2013, 06:19 PM
It does seem odd behaviour. In my experience a dog will accept new cat/s into the home but cats don't seem to like any new additions. Tyr was an exception too with Guinness.

I suppose the best advice would to be have him checked with the vet first.

Clicker training is probably the best way to start. Reward him for all nice behaviour towards the cats initially until he associates them with nice things.

Do you always trade-up when removing any chewy sticks? Maybe doing that will help him think it's no big deal to have his chewies taken, if that's what he thinks the cats will do?

I'm sure others will have more suggestions. Good luck. Hope you have harmony soon.

Nicky
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Timber-
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16-04-2013, 06:44 PM
It could be that he is still grieving Tyr. Grieving differs from dog to dog.
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Pookin
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18-04-2013, 08:33 AM
I would start moving his waterbowl and bed around to see if that helps. Moving a crate around is going to be trickier to do regularly than moving a bowl.
My lurcher Vic started to get a bit of a grump over a certain corner of the living room where he was fed.
I change the spot he's fed in a couple of times a week now and he no longer guards the area.
Could the two girls be picking on him or playing with his stuff outside the crate when you aren't there or are they kept totally separate?
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Gemini54
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18-04-2013, 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by coventrycatfish View Post
A bit of back story first. When Guinness first came to live with us, we already had a (neutered male) cat, Tyr. Guinness was fine with Tyr from the beginning and often used to take toys over to him and play bow. He never showed any signs of possessiveness with his food, his bed or his toys, if Tyr wanted something, Guinness would sit back and let him have it. The sods even used to raid the kitchen bin together and share the spoils. Tyr died in April 2012. For months afterwards, Guinness used to go around poking his nose into the places where Tyr used to sleep as if he was looking for him.

Just before Christmas 2012, we adopted two young female cats aged approximately eighteen months and six months. To start with they were wary of Guinness, and apart from the odd sniff he totally ignored them. This did surprise me as he had wanted friendly interaction with Tyr from the word go (even though Tyr’s initial reaction to him was hissing and snarling). As they settled in, Sacha and Flora realised that Guinness was nothing to worry about and began to ignore his presence. This mutual ignoring has been going on for several months until very recently.

Within the last week or so, things have changed. Now, if either cat goes anywhere near (within about eighteen inches) of anything he views as his, he growls at them. He and Tyr used to drink from either water bowl with no issues, but if Sacha or Flora go anywhere near the one Guinness now regards as “his”, he growls (although he will still drink from the other one quite happily and doesn’t seem to care if they are near that). If they approach his bed (inside a crate that is usually left open) he growls. If he has left a toy or a chew on the floor and they go near it, he growls and comes charging out of his bed to grab it. He shows no reaction to cats when out on walks and takes no notice of ours unless they get close to “his” stuff.

He’s had a recent change of kibble (we ran out and weren’t able to get out for the normal stuff so had to settle for what was in the small local shop). Other than that he is still getting his raw meals, still getting the usual amount of exercise and the same amount of attention. The cats have not suddenly attempted to take over the world. Could a simple change of kibble be the cause? I wouldn’t think so, particularly as the rest of his behaviour is totally normal (for him).

We don’t want him growling at the cats. What can we do to get things back to normal? We’ve done the obvious stuff, such as making sure toys/chews are not left out, but that still leaves the areas around his bed and “his” water bowl to contend with. Should we move them to a new location in the hope he will be less defensive or would that make him more insecure?
Hi My older dog grew up with a feral cat who only came in for the winter but like yours allowed liberties,then Gemma disappeared,another cat came in from the cold,one we called scrawny,but Holly did all the growling,but one day after the cat had a go and went for holly with claws out.We put scrawny out,then the cat lady told us,they are testing there boundaries,do not react just ignore all behaviour,we did,but it is very difficult not to tense up,as cats can do a lot of damage,but now if scrawny does come in,ignore the event,we have made a place for him/her high up as then he feels safe.crystalgirl
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coventrycatfish
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Location: Cheshire, UK
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18-04-2013, 03:01 PM
Most of the time chews don’t last long enough to need to be removed. On odd occasions he will get fed up with the more heavy duty ones and abandon them. We used to just leave them for him, but now we pick them up and that doesn’t bother him. It only seems to worry him when it’s a cat going near them. If we did want to take a chew from him whilst he was eating it, we would trade for a small piece of cheese or dried liver.

I will try moving the water bowl and see what happens. If that helps, we can then swop his crate over with another piece of furniture and see if that improves things.

I don’t think the cats are aggravating him when we aren’t watching. One of them doesn’t bother with toys at all and the other one prefers to play “kitchen hockey” with plastic bottle tops. The growling incidents over his toys have occurred when they were just walking close to them, they were not attempting to play with them.

We don’t let them have access to each other overnight. We’d just got to the point where I was thinking of leaving the kitchen door open again at night, and then this started.
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Magic
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18-04-2013, 09:48 PM
Your cat(s) maybe are trying to dominate him,,, try learning a little about cat behaviour and don't always blame it on the dog.
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Tessabelle
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18-04-2013, 09:56 PM
I can recommend 'Cat Confidential' for a bit of an insight into cats. I have just started reading 'MINE!' by Jean Donaldson which you may find useful.
Good luck!
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Velvetboxers
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18-04-2013, 10:08 PM
Keep a record and watch his general behaviour more closely - sudden changes in behaviour can be a symptom of thyroid problems. Usually the changes happen so gradually the owner is not aware of them until something really changes and it may just be a coincidence that the cats are new.

The other angle is the cat you lost was an older mature cat, you now have two much younger cats, one just a kitten still. They are quick and dart about, something he has not been used to. They also,take up more attention so perhaps he has been feeling a bit left out.
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Gemini54
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19-04-2013, 06:45 AM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers View Post
Keep a record and watch his general behaviour more closely - sudden changes in behaviour can be a symptom of thyroid problems. Usually the changes happen so gradually the owner is not aware of them until something really changes and it may just be a coincidence that the cats are new.

The other angle is the cat you lost was an older mature cat, you now have two much younger cats, one just a kitten still. They are quick and dart about, something he has not been used to. They also,take up more attention so perhaps he has been feeling a bit left out.
Hi I hadnt thought about that both of the cats I had were older and used to greet the dog with tail up and then rub there heads against Holly they usuallywent to Holly,and as you say Kittens would be dartingand definately not slow in there approach valid point crystalgirl
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