Yup Mini, it is quite true what you say ... however, I have seen with my own eyes a Czech Wolfdog regurgitating for his pups and for the mother of his pups (all living together).

Now, I know a Czech Wolfdog is a wolf cross, and not a dog as such, but he is far more dog than he is wolf, therefore it is inaccurate to say that the male dog will not regurgitate. I just do not believe this to be an accurate statement.

I believe that in the normal domestic situation with a normal dog ... let's take my bitch GSP, Lizzie. Her pups were raised in a stable adjoining my cottage, with the top half of the stable door open so that she could come and go as she pleased, and the pups were safe. Now, had Boris, the father of the pups, been living with his family, I am absolutely sure that he too would regurgitate for his pups, just as the male Czechie that I know. It is just that in the case of our domestic dogs normally the father has nothing to do with the raising of his pups ... his job is over, the raising is left to the female.

This is of course only my opinion, I have no evidence, other than that of the Czech male.

I only quoted my own bitch because this was the best experience that I had. I have also seen this occur with other bitches ... the mother of Hal's first litter of pups springs to mind and I remember my friend's labrador regurgitating for her pups. I am absolutely sure my GSP, Hal's first wife and my friend's labrador cannot merely have been pure coincidence, I stand by my earlier statement that it is nonsense to say that dogs do not regurgitate for their pups.

Hannaho : you are more than welcome to join this debate, please don't go ! I don't think anyone is making fun of your opinion, I for one agree with you. Look, a lot of what these clever clogs on here say is way, way above my head. I have tons of research to follow up on via the links that have been posted on this fascinating thread, and I fully intend to follow them up, try to understand them and then comment. At the moment, I am arguing purely from the same stand point as you ... my own practical knowledge. Don't be intimidated, your views are just as valid as everyone else's.

I am sure I am not the only one who will be sad if you go ... please stay !

I did a google search for "bitches regurgitating food for puppies" and found this on here, posted by Minihaha :

"Bitches may regurgitate food to feed to their puppies, this often occurs when the puppies are reaching the weaning stage. When the bitch eats the food it may be chewed/mixed with saliva/ making it easer for puppies to digest, so it is a natural behaviour."

I know this sounds off topic, but I think its relivent as lots of Alpha supporters are buying into wolf behaviours

Where do you think the pack starts out?? What makes up a pack? What relationship to each other in the pack? how do individuals 'take over' and become Alpha? What is a lone wolf? In your model what prevents interbreeding between father daughter and mother son??

and I am also interested in actual examples you feel that your dog 'took over' from you to try and become alpha

It was not my intention to make you feel unwanted, hopefully you will change your mind about posting again.

Beagles work in social groups. Packs have different social dynamics than what we observe in groups of dogs, be it beagles, foxhounds, or harriers.

Your conclusion about the destruction of your house is not warranted. Many dogs destroy their owner's house and properties. All of my dogs have been chewers, but I redirected the chewing to appropriate objects. All you know is that he did it, your explanation of why they did it is based on an a priori conclusion.

Many people have beagles that live perfectly fine lives alone with their owners. Perhaps you didn't do an adequate job of bonding with the dog so it prefers other dogs to you. This falls under environmental influences and not some genetic predisposition to live in a pack.

A pack is 2 or more animals. A lone wolf is a wolf, usually a male, who doesn't have a pack of his own. Most likely he has been "thrown out" of his birth pack for a variety of reasons, and is now sniffing around another pack in the hopes of being allowed to join. He may or may not be an aspiring alpha. If he is an aspiring alpha, he will be taken on by the Beta Enforcers and most likely killed. If absolutely necessary, the alpha male would defend his position and if defeated, will himself most likely be ousted and left to die. Nature is cruel and merciless.

I often wondered about the inbreeding between father and daughter, mother and son. Apparently, this just does not happen in a wolf pack, I believe I am right in saying that the inhibition is initiated by the siblings, not the parents, in other words daughter refuses to allow her father to mount her, and son will not mount his mother.

Neither Hal nor Tai ever have taken over. Hal tried on a regular basis, but never succeeded. Tai, because I have been very poorly recently, had a try this morning in the field, but again failed miserably. This is the very first time that I have ever had trouble of this nature from Tai, so it was very interesting.

Individuals within a wolf pack will from time to time attempt a take over - alpha male will be challenged, and the challenger may or may not be successful. I am not sure about this, but presumably a similar thing happens with aLPHA female, but I am only guessing.

Again, I don't know, but I guess a brand new pack would start when two lone wolves, male and female, are lucky enough to meet up, mate, produce cubs, and the pack is formed. As siblings will not mate with their parents, then presumably more unrelated loners will be accepted into the pack as time goes on.

Quiz Night now at the local pub ... hope we have some wolf questions !!

I have only known one beagle in my life, a little bitch called Buttons, who was an absolute demon for chewing !! My father was enraged because we were staying with her owners and Buttons ate his best pair of silk evening socks and he had to wear his ordinary ones with his dinner jacket !

I don't know much about beagles, but I have always thought that being pack animals, it could be they are not happy living singly away from fellow beagles and thus they have a much higher propensity for activities such as digging and chewing. Just a guess Hannaho, you're far more of a beagle expert than I.

Pub awaits !! Pinot Grigio !!

In this country Promethean beagles are very definitely pack animals, as are fox hounds, bloodhounds and basset hounds. My understanding is that all these pack animals make very bad pets if kept on their own ... someone in our village has a couple of bassets, and they do not destroy the house ... but it seems that hounds when kept singly can be very destructive. As a child we had a bloodhound, Kim, and he would eat socks and chew chair legs, but apart from that wasn't too bad. But the beagle belonging to some friends of our's, Buttons, was a little devil.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer, hope you enjoy your pup night
I have highlited the bit I totaly totaly agree with - a pack is a breeding pair of wolves and their offspring

You seem to be saying that to this pack lone wolves who want to be alpha will join the pack and eventaly challange for position?? but you are also saying that a wolf that wants to be alpha would be chased off and killed by a pack

- sorry - I am not trying to trick you here I am just trying to understand your way of thinking here

I believe that the pack is the breeding pair and their cubs and older cubs
There are no challanges for the alpha position because when the males become sexually mature they leave or are driven from the pack
and when the females are sexually mature a lone wolf comes and pairs off with her and they go away to form their own pack

In unnatural situations like where humans have formed the pack or something like that then the situation can and will be different because that is unnatural to the wolf

From an evoulutionary point of view it just dosent make sense for only a very select few animals to be able to breed - pretty much all female animals who live to sexual maturity will breed


What behaviours did your dogs show that gave you the idea they were trying to take over and how did you deal with these behaviours??