But you can say that about anything! "Oh I think a dog with more than 3 first prizes should be in a class other than puppy or junior because my dog regularly gets second to it and deserves his Junior Warrent" If a dog is good enough it'll get made up - simple really.

I do agree that judges should be willing to withhold though - when you're stood in the ring and reading the words on those cards it really does bring it all into perspective - 'of such outstanding merit' really should mean just that.

Debs

Maybe instead of CC's we should have a points system. x number of points = a champion points are award for 1st 2nd & 3rd that way those that are consistantly placed 2nd can still, eventually, achieve their championship?
Becky

With our breed that doesnt particulary have a long 'show life' it can be hard if you're bringing your dog out at the same time as one thats doing all the winning, amassing RCC after RCC never getting a whiff of a CC...

For example my girls mum had 28CC's now 29 since sunday just gone she was top winning bitch for 4 years i would love to know how many others got made up as champions during her reign compared with following years after she retired to have a litter... She hasnt been out since but came out Sunday in veteran and got the CC

So the people that were showing at that time must have got peed off..

You know what - I've just read through the entire petition again and it REALLY does smack of the "it's not fair that the same people win all the time" rubbish that people come out with time after time. We all know there are judges who are facey - we all know who they are - it's simple - don't enter under them!

So the scenario is that there's now a Champions class in the UK and the winner of that cannot compete for the CC. So what happens? The people that normally win (who knows - it could even be because their dogs are GOOD ENOUGH!) enter their younger, up and coming dogs in Open. And guess what! THEY win the CC! Still the same people winning - it doesn't alter a thing.

I can understand the argument that some people have put forward that they need another class due to their younger dogs in Open and still wanting to show their Champions - but that is NOT what you're putting your name to people! NOWHERE on that petition does it put that point of view across. Instead it focuses solely on greedy exhibitors, facey judging and their own dogs not being made up. Not sure I'd want my name put to something like that even if I DID agree with it!

Debs

What about breeds that do not have many CC's I know in my breed we have only 8 shows where CC's are on offer two of those shows only has one CC on offer. When you have so few shows to go to in the first place its very limiting when you also do not go to some of those shows because you know the judge is a face placer, to be honest, although it would be nice to win a CC or 3 lol. but the breed I am in has only just got CC's and I went to every show before they came in, because I enjoyed it, I dont think I will ever be up there with the big winners, so to me personally it makes no difference, but I voted yes to championship classes, because I know there are quite a few in my breed that deserve a shot. and lack of CC's makes this extremely difficult.

Yes it should be difficult, but should it be very, very difficult? Answer, no!

It's not about taking away prestige, it's about giving people a fair chance. At the end of the day once a dog has 3 CCs it's a champ, so what's the point of continuing? To get the record of most CCs in the breed, basically. How is that fair to those who do have a champion in the making, but never get a chance because of someones urge to gain that record?

I don't think it would take away the prestige at all personally!

I also think that many of Frances ESS are far superior to those in this country, so the system can't be all that bad!

I just prefer the fact that my dog has to beat ALL the dogs to get a CC. People always moan about not being able to get past top winners. How many of you are in breeds (apart from the ones with newly aquired CC status where it's slightly different) which haven't had more then one dog made up in any one year? If it was a case of one well known dog winning everything, no new Champions would be made up at all - and that's just not the case is it.

Debs

Well in my breed the owner not only went for the breed record for the size but also for the most CC's in poodles all sizes. As the rumour is that this dog is erm cosmetically enhanced but their owner is a member of the KC nothing seems to have been done about that!
Becky

It's interesting we were talking about this at Richmond at the weekend and most of the people involved had many dogs with champion status. The general conscensus was they were more than happy to have another class and most of them agreed where there had been times where one dog held a lot of dogs back from gaining their title.
What was proposed is that champions have something to aim for like in other countries Australia etc. where champions compete to become grand champions. Once a dog has become a champion where does it go from there?
Well in the meantime I will continue to take my dog out, you either live with the faciness, the competition and hope your dog is good enough to get past it all, or you find something else to do. All I know is if I manage to get my boys title it will be because he's good enough. Hes' done more than I ever hoped for so anything else is a bonus.

That's a good suggestion, at least then they are still competing, isn't it the same in cats they have champs then grand champs and I'm certain there is a premier somewhere in there too!
Becky