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jess
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10-01-2008, 11:57 AM
I know, but it's all so interesting - or is it just very very geeky??
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Zuba
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10-01-2008, 12:05 PM
I feed a raw diet to my two with no complaints from them I am now probably going to reiterate what some others have said already but the whole back and forth wasn't making for easy reading so decided to have my two pennies worth

My opinion is this; Dogs are Carnivores. Their ancestors were the earliest known carnivores and their closest living relatives, grey wolves, are carnivores. Now unless someone can give me evidence to support the theory that dogs are now omnivores then I shall continue to feed my dogs as though they are carnivores.

Each to their own in my opinion.
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jess
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10-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Zuba:
''Their ancestors were the earliest known carnivores and their closest living relatives, grey wolves, are carnivores.''
But their relatives are not just wolves, they are also coyotes and jackals and foxes, who are all scavengers. Natural selection has made animals adaptable. If they can adapt in a generation, then surely after 18, 000 years they can too?

''Now unless someone can give me evidence to support the theory that dogs are now omnivores then I shall continue to feed my dogs as though they are carnivores.''

If people give you the evidence, do you promise to at the least listen to it?
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Zuba
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10-01-2008, 12:46 PM
Evidence to me is more than theory and beliefs, I want hard physical evidence, dna, anatomy, etc. I promise to listen if you have it

Foxes are carnivores, Jackals are carnivores, coyotes are carnivores. I didn't say that Grey wolves were their only living relative just that they are the closest You have said it before I did yes they have "adapted" to eat fruit and veg, it doesn't mean it is necessary or that they get any goodness from it
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jess
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10-01-2008, 12:55 PM
OK if we are going to discuss this, and you want 'evidence' can we start with some parameters...

can you explain what you need when you say 'goodness' (I am not meaning to sound critical, this will help in our search) I do not know more than you, less probably, but we can help each other find conclusion?

When you say carnivore, you are happy with the fact that these animals eat alsorts, when and wherever they can get it?
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Zuba
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10-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by jess View Post
OK if we are going to discuss this, and you want 'evidence' can we start with some parameters...

can you explain what you need when you say 'goodness' (I am not meaning to sound critical, this will help in our search) I do not know more than you, less probably, but we can help each other find conclusion?
Goodness is something that is of benefit to the animal, that is digestible by the system and isn't found in raw meat, offal, bones, fish, etc.

Originally Posted by jess View Post
When you say carnivore, you are happy with the fact that these animals eat alsorts, when and wherever they can get it?
Probably being dense but don't know quite what you mean?
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pod
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10-01-2008, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by Zuba View Post
My opinion is this; Dogs are Carnivores. Their ancestors were the earliest known carnivores and their closest living relatives, grey wolves, are carnivores.

Ok first, I've got to make the distinction between Carnivore and carnivore.

Dogs are indeed Carnivores. All animals classified in the Order Carnivora are. This is a taxonomic classification and doesn't dictate diet. There are many species in this Order that are omnivorous by habit, including the Bears, the giant panda being almost exclusively vegetarian.

The fact that dogs are descended from Carnivores doesn't make them carnivorous by habit. They have adapted to a wide and varied diet that now suits their niche in our present society.

Another example of adaptation, this one changing in a matter of decades, is the uban fox, living off human waste that probably includes very little fresh meat.
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Zuba
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10-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
Another example of adaptation, this one changing in a matter of decades, is the uban fox, living off human waste that probably includes very little fresh meat.
Urban foxes do not live mainly from scavenging from bins. Foxes will eat almost anything and its why they are so successful. Their regular diet includes earthworms, insects, pigeons, rodents, beetles, moth larvae, etc. Yes they eat fruit and veg and like has been said they have adapted to do so, it does not mean that they are getting anything from it that cannot be found in a raw meat,etc diet.

None of this is proof that dogs need vegetables in their diet
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Zuba
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10-01-2008, 01:42 PM
Anyways enough said about any other animals this is about dogs and comparing animals who went down different evolutionary paths is not going to convince me.

I am giving you the option here to convert my dogs to a veggy and raw diet. I don't want to argue about why the raw is so bad without veg, I want proof that veg adds anything to my dogs diet that they are not already getting, Thats all.
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pod
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10-01-2008, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by Zuba View Post
Urban foxes do not live mainly from scavenging from bins. Foxes will eat almost anything and its why they are so successful. Their regular diet includes earthworms, insects, pigeons, rodents, beetles, moth larvae, etc.

The urban and rural fox have diversified into very different populations. The reason the urban fox has adapted so well is that it is capable of scavenging from bins and living off human waste.
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