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Dobermann
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Location: Fife, UK
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07-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn View Post
Cesar says only reward calm submissive energy/state so maybe he said do not reward excitement.


there was one episode, basic problem (not aggression)dog responded well & fast to CM methods & the owner was not allowed to praise the good ,
she was not alowed to praise the good calm behaviour. but they just waited (which of course happened , because the good stuff was not praised) for the dog to go wrong again.

What a shame eh? Awful awful training
I seen that. Its was leash walking.
(probably others too?)
The owner actually commented on how she felt she should tell him when he's good, asked if she could and he said no.
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BangKaew
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08-08-2011, 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
Without wanting to go into too much detail (and off topic), white in dogs isn't caused by an albino factor. There are no recorded mutations on the albino (tyrosinase), aka C locus, in dogs. White is caused by spotting genes, or by a combination of genes that lighten the colour giving the appearance of white.
I think it was Temple Grandin who said that pink skin was unstable in animals because of the albino factor. I am going to start a new thread about this and the siberian foxes that went white when selectively bred

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php...66#post2324866
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BangKaew
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08-08-2011, 04:42 AM
Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
I think everyone will agree with you in respect of rules and boundaries . Whenever Milan is discussed, there seems to be some kind of belief that those who do not use physical aversives as part of their training do not believe in rules and boundaries being set, but this really is nonsense.
In my limited experience, even Cesar fans, including us, can not bring themselves to do many physical aversives. I think we are attracted because we have unruly dogs that when we start to have RB&L everything clicks.
I tend to agree with Mech, the canine hierarchy is much the same as the human family hierarchy. Mum and dad guide the youngsters into adulthood whilst the youngsters still squabble amongst themselves
I agree with your analogy. I think dogs are more like children or the bridge between animals and humans I used to think there was no point talking to my dogs but I am amazed how it works. The other day my big dog put his jaws around the small dogs head, and I said - Boo do not do that, you might hurt him. And he immediately stopped and carried on playing. One time he was begging, and I said - if you continue begging I am going to give my left overs to Manny (the small dog) and he immediately went away and lay down and watched!
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Corinthian
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11-08-2011, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by BangKaew View Post
In my limited experience, even Cesar fans, including us, can not bring themselves to do many physical aversives. I think we are attracted because we have unruly dogs that when we start to have RB&L everything clicks.
I think that is one of the reason why Millan's "miracle" cures stop working immediately (see Cotton) or soon after Millan (JonBee) leaves. The owners are unwilling or unable to apply that intense level of physical punishment. Without Millan there cheering to 'pop' them harder or kick them like they mean it, most people are just not willing to do it.
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BangKaew
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12-08-2011, 04:39 AM
Originally Posted by Corinthian View Post
I think that is one of the reason why Millan's "miracle" cures stop working immediately (see Cotton) or soon after Millan (JonBee) leaves. The owners are unwilling or unable to apply that intense level of physical punishment. Without Millan there cheering to 'pop' them harder or kick them like they mean it, most people are just not willing to do it.
The Millan cure that worked for us was; sufficient exercise so that it was similar to a job for the dogs and I swear they respect a handler more than a lover , discipline which is simply; not in the bedrooms or the sofa unless invited, no jumping up on guests etc. It is very basic but it is still challenging for a 12 months, head strong dog to do. And affection so that the dog completely trusts you. That is 90% of Cesar's philosophy and that is a good thing for the general pubic to know. Of course many know this instinctively but many also let their dogs take over and do not sufficiently exercise them. Once you have that foundation I agree that purely positive response techniques should be used. Trainers sometimes wrongly assume the foundation is already in place but I may be wrong

The bad thing about Millan is that it makes some people think- well he jabs them and you know if it was not on TV he would probably smack them so that is obviously ok if I do it.

Going to get my big wooden stick out now and say; well the no smacking, no belt at school policy really worked for that generation (of rioters)!
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Corinthian
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13-08-2011, 01:59 AM
Exercise is not a Millan invention. Every training book since the beginning of training books has recommended it. Same with everything else. Which leaves the dog kicking, and while that's not his either, he has made it dangerously popular.

BTW people have been rioting as long as there have been cities. Read up on your ancient history.
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BangKaew
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13-08-2011, 04:44 AM
Originally Posted by Corinthian View Post
BTW people have been rioting as long as there have been cities. Read up on your ancient history.
Yes but normally they were starving and had seen loved ones killed.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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13-08-2011, 12:37 PM
None of them things are anything any other trainer wouldnt stress as well - and even with them I have some big issues with CM's way

Exarcise - should be APPROPRIATE
I remember the episode with the giant breed puppy who would not go up stairs - CM's way was to drag the puppy out in the heat of the day and run him till he was panting then try and drag him up the stairs
Wrong in so many ways - the puppy shouldnt have been going up stairs yet, shouldnt overexercise joints

Discipline
The problem with this is CM dosent teach the dogs what he wants them to do he just constantly tells them off when they do the wrong thing
Yes have rules - but teach the dog you rules

affection
hmm well I have seen his affection, stroking the dog he has pinned to the floor because he can see the dog is so stiff legged if he moves to get up the dog will rip his leg open
Or rubbing the chicken killer dog, who is now shut down on the floor after all the punishments - he rubbed the duck all over the poor dog


Exercise your dog mentaly and physicaly to the level your breed and age of your dog needs
Set rules and boundries, teach them well and enforce them fairly
snuggle with your dog, make yourself a good place to be around, let them know how happy you are with them- It lowers your blood pressure too

Like CM but worlds away
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BangKaew
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14-08-2011, 02:34 AM
Discipline
The problem with this is CM dosent teach the dogs what he wants them to do he just constantly tells them off when they do the wrong thing
Yes have rules - but teach the dog you rules
I have the problem of one of my dogs barking at cars when he is in the back of my truck. How do I teach him not to bark without Tssting him when he does it?
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mishflynn
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14-08-2011, 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by BangKaew View Post
I have the problem of one of my dogs barking at cars when he is in the back of my truck. How do I teach him not to bark without Tssting him when he does it?
Does the Tssting work , or do you have to repeat it
?
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