mmm ..I'm torn on this one ..I treat trained my dobe and even now he looks for the treat
we went to a training class that didn't allow treats and he came on leaps and bounds ...now I take the Cesar Milan approach ( but without the prong collar ) no nonsense and no great highs and lows either and it works better (for us anyway )

I've trained in different ways over the years, my current dog, also a Terv, has been mostly clicker trained and we have a good bond and a great time together. She's also competed in a working trial. I use food rewards (not just treats ) .

I use toys a plenty, and affection and praise; for actual training I tend to set up a plan and that invariably uses clicker and "rewards" which are mostly toys or food or games together

I have a book called "Schutzhund training in Drive" by Gottfried Dildei and Sheila Booth; it mentions a lot about the various drives ... Sheila eventually went on to write "Purely Postive Training" as she wanted to train in a different way. It's interesting to see the difference between the 2 books.

Anyone interested in drives there's a bit here:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti...02b/drives.htm

A lot of training, IMHO, includes working with "drives" but very few of us tend to use the terms

i do treat train but i also use, toys, my voice, cuddles, petting, play ect as giving treats less so they now they have to work abit longer before the reward.

we use a mixture, some treats, some toys, and a lot of praise, but we are quite strict with the "rules" and they're all happy and well behaved doglets inside and out

I like to train with rewards - however, once a behaviour has been learnt the type and amount of reward is varied - keeping the element of surprise - sometimes if using food a whole handful of food is given other times just a verbal praise given. Therefore the dog is never quite sure what it's going to get! I like clicker training too as it is great for indicating that the dog has done the right thing and a reward will follow - but that reward (as long as the it is learnt the behaviour fully) will vary in amount and type.

However, I am struggling to come up with 10!!!
Toys
Praise - verbal
Praise - physical
Clicker
Game
Play

Thanks. You know me, I like to read about all the different theories, and beg and borrow from several, if for no other reason than to keep the dog from getting bored.

I found a really interesting site the other night, with a book extract which really had me hooked. Sadly, trying to get the book in the UK seems next to impossible!

Puppy knows everything of acceptance. If puppies are not completely left alone in the backyard, they learn immediately, that human being means something to happen. No treats are needed.
I saw heeling thought 6 mths old tervpup in 3 minutes without any food, toy or treats. She still knows it. It was rewarded only with packdrive. Technique has to be seen, it is really hard to describe just on one forum, but it works. My boyfriend is pretty good with handling dogs, and I've seen him doing the same to shy groenendael, rascal year old doberman, stubborn amstaff, overdriven malinois, ya name it!
Also, when I learnt the technique, I could do it for some dogs also, but I still have a long way to go.

But puppies don't need food and treats and toys to learn, what they have to do. Just you, leash and soft leather collar, that's it. Well, maybe also a little bit of attitude ...

Some pics of dogs trained with packdrive only:
Malinois female, in the picture 9 mths old


Tervueren male, after 3 mths of training with packdrive only:


terv female, trained almost a year only packdrive


Sorry no other breeds in these pics, but tervperson has camera only for tervs :smt002

J

All dogs are so different, even dogs of the same breed can show massive differences.
It depends on what 'drives' your dog...some will be driven by contact, by food, by play, by voice..they are all different.
If food rewards are used, they should become intermittent as the dog displays the desired behaviour and cna be phased outr totally.
One of my dogs was not food driven at all...but he'd kill for a tickle!!! all dogs are different and I really believe that no one method will work for all dogs (or the same dog all the time)...
The only thing I feel is strongly set in stone is kindness.

Hi Jenni If the method you use works for you then fine . I was talking in general about puppies from 8 weeks old onwards who know nothing of acceptance and have to be taught to accept a new owner , not 6 month old puppies who have seen a bit of the world and can be taught to heel in 3 minute. When you first get a puppy home it is often scared and confused, getting its attention at all can be difficult until you build a bond with it and food can help to do this.

Many of the people who come on this site are learning to train pets, in many cases they want to know the simplest way to teach basic things.

As you say yourself 'the method you use is hard to teach on a forum', and you 'still have a long way to go', so it may not be the easist or best method for many people here and I don't think they should be detered from using food as a lure to teach basic things to their pets. .

Have you seen the Working dogs section, people often go into more detail there about advanced training methods for working dogs.
http://www.dogsey.com/forumdisplay.php?f=104

It is nothing complex, believe me. I've handled puppies right from their birth, since they are 7 weeks and 6 mths and 9 years and basically everything in between. Right now I am translating the training, where there are Irish wolfhound (year old), schnautzers, appenzell, gsd, retriever, all problemdogs thought with treats. Within 8 weeks, once a week training, all have learned to communicate with their dogs without any extra things and without any food. It is not only workingdog training, it goes to every single dog, every age.

First I also thought it was something quite new and revolutionary, but then I understood it was the way dogs were always trained before big and complex theories came. Actually clickertraining goes closest - except you don't need the gadget, your word of praise makes the same effect and much faster.

Well, it is no use to quarrel about this. Someone asked about new ways and I gave one and tried to give some examples and ways to do it very basic. Everyone does how they want and feel most comfortable. But I just wanted to tell, how much difference it made for me and my dogs and how fast the results were there. Those who saw me and my dog a year ago, don't even believe their eyes now, the chance has been so big.

Enjoy training, enjoy being with your dog, that must be the basic thing.

Jenni