Heart Murmur

Hi

Bear is now 11 weeks old and has settled in wonderfully. He has doubled his weight in 3 weeks and is a happy, friendly little pup.

However, we are now having some serious concerns. When we took him to the vets for his 2nd vacination the vet gave him a good check over and said that he has a grade 3/4 loudness heart murmur. This was mentioned when we took him for his 1st injection but it was not made out to be serious and were told most puppies have it and it would be gone in a few weeks. We are really upset. The vet talked about the need for scans in order to determine the cause and extent of the problem and asked about our insurance. Our free insurance actually ran out the day before and pet plan had not sent a renewal so I did not keep up continuous cover as he was not insured for one day, so the day he saw the vet he had no insurance. The cost of just the scans would be approx £400-£500. The vet even went as far as to say we should consider returning Bear to the breeder and starting again with another puppy
We feel heartbroken and don't know what to do. I have contacted the breeder who have been supportive and they called the vets and have offered to take Bear back and give us a refund if that is what we wish.
I feel so torn. I said to the breeder that we would like to give it another couple of months to see it does correct itself, if not then we feel it would be necessary to have the scans so we know exactly what we are dealing with.We were hoping that they would agree to meet the cost of scan as the vet did say it was a condition he was born with, but they have declined, perhaps I was unreasonable in asking? The only option they agree to is for us to return Bear to them and they will give a refund. But that is the last thing we want to do. We do feel upset that we have paid a lot of money for a puppy which might not be 100% healthy. We have all obviously bonded with Bear now and love him lots, I picked him up the day after my Mum's funeral and having him around helped me a lot. Also, after loosing Ben it has been great to have a dog around again.
I am so worried about what to do for the best. Does anyone have any experience of murmurs or advice?

This is a tough situation.My 15 year old started with a grade 3-4 murmur 6 months ago and she is now in congested heart faliure showing how fast heart murmurs can get worse.Saying that he is only 11 weeks old and could grow out of it but at a level 3 murmur that might not be possible.Its understandable that you have bonded with your puppy but a murmur is no simple illness that will go away,i have been through alot with my little girl the stress has literally turned some of my hair white and i am only 28.You should be aware of the financial costs can be quite alarming.You should ask the breeder what they would do with your puppy if you should return him,i do think this may be the wisest decision for you and your family as dogs born with heart problems can deteriorate quite quickly as you have seen with you puppy.Saying that with the correct drugs he could live for many many happy years,also have you asked you vet if bear could possible have a cardial ultrasound,its cheaper and safe i chose for my dog to have one has it was safer for her.A second opinion is a good option also.Good Luck to you

I would get a second opinion - it is possible that this is a puppy flow murmur.

Max was diagnosed with murmur when he went for his second check - we were devastated - like you rang the breeder - she was horrified - we had a scan - scan revealed nothing - told he should be ok etc.

All very worrying. He was lively and never seemed to suffer or seem to be under any undue strain from his heart - never thought about it again until at 2 he went to have his hips scored under sedation - I mentioned his murmur - to which the lady administering said he does not have a murmur. She then told me all about puppy flow murmurs and said alot of vets don't have the experience to be able to tell the difference.

A friend of mine also had experience with a dog she bred - again went to see a specialist and advised flow murmur.

So if it were me I would be looking at a second opinion with a HEART specialist.

I hope its nothing serious but before you look at spending money on a scan suggest you seek a second opinion.

All the best for you and pup x

I was under the impression (like Rachel) that puppies often have murmurs... these can last several months, but aren't actually a "proper" heart murmur.

I did ask our vet about it (as Boxers are prone to HM's) and was told that lots of puppies had murmurs and it was very difficult to tell until the growth rate etc had settled down.

I would defintely get a second opinion, from, if possible a heart specialist, and someone not at that surgery

One of my dogs had been diagnosed as having a murmer when he was a puppy too. The vet thought it would probably disappear and when we took him back for a check up at a later date he was given a scan and thorough health check and we were told his heart was 100% healthy and they couldn't find any murmur at all I really hope it turns out the same for you and Bear, and I would probably seek a 2nd opinion too, it can't hurt.

What a worry Tania I do hope the murmur isn't a serious one, and as already suggested, I would try and get a second opinion from a heart specialist and take it from there.

I don't know if this is relevant, there's a big difference between human health and dog health but just adding my bit so please don't laugh I have a heart murmer that wasn't diagnosed until I was 17 and I've never had any real problems relating to it or even had to have any treatment for it.
To the best of my knowledge it can be this way for dogs too although in both cases it depends on the heart murmer. Some can have effects on your health while others will never need any medication and will have no impact on your life.
I would definitely have it looked into properly, perhaps all it will ever need is regular checks just to keep an eye on it.

A grade 3/4 murmur is significant and if Bear were a small dog Id be less concerned. Id wait till he were 12mths or so and then have a scan to see if its still there and what the problem is. I have a dog with a grade 4/5 murmur that was induced by Pneumonia after kennel cough, its never given him a moments trouble and he is 10yrs old now. Loud murmurs in old dogs is totally different to those in young dogs, a huge percentage of old dogs develop murmurs and subsequent health problems associated with it, congestive heart failure is a common "old dog" problem.

I have no knowledge of this sort of thing I'm afraid, so cannot advise that way. I just wanted to say that I do think a second opinion is always worth seeking, if only for to have all the facts.

I do hope Bear is okay, what a heartbreak for you.

Is your vet a Cardiologizt ? Did he use a Doppler machine to listen to his heart ? If not I would wait & insist on having a proper heart test by a Cardiologizt & not a GP vet using a stethoscope.

One of our Cavaliers had a very slight murmur all his life & until he was 9 nearly 10 years of age he managed fine, he only went on meds in his last two years & was PTS aged nearly 12. My vets do not diagnose serious heart problems in young dogs without a Doppler test