Bit worried I am not BARFing right!

Hi

I started Dougie on BARF a few months ago and I am a bit worried I am not doing it right, due to the colour / consistency of his poo (!)

I feed BARF with a very low % of veg. About 5 to 10 %. He doesnt get the same food everyday, but he does get virtually the same foods each week - for example: He has 5days of soft meat (normally minced venison, or minced beef) with 1 chicken wing. He has 1 day of just soft meat and the last day of the week he gets a chicken carcus. I supplement his food with his herbs (green lipped muscle, MSM, cod liver oil etc) and he gets a raw egg every now and again and also probably consumes the equivilant of 2 carrots in varied veg.

I stuggle to get the meat as it is and have 2 fave suppliers, but the variety is limited to venison, green tripe and beef. All are organic offcuts and contain livers, kidney etc and minced ready for dog owners so I dont tend to give any livers etc on their own as I worry he might be getting too much. He also gets 2 or 3 pigs ears a week and also 1 large recreational bone.

So, his poo, sorry folks, I am going to have to describe it - its normally always a yellowy colour and its hard and crumbly. When I pick it up, it crumbles and has to be swept up! We thought it would settle down once he gets used to the diet change but its not. Is he having too much bone? Hes getting on a bit and has bad hips (athritus) and sometimes doesnt even realise he is pooing, now I am not sure if this is an age thing, or whether its something to do with his hips (seeing the vet next week to discuss)

Any thoughts?

If his poo's hard & crumbly it does suggest that bones are involved. Does he seem constipated at all? Is he straining to poo? If not, then personally I wouldn't be too worried.

From what you've posted about his diet, it doesn't seem like you are giving too much bone. Does his poo change at all from day to day, e.g. is the poo harder & more crumbly after the chicken carcass?

IMO 2 to 3 pig's ears a week is quite a lot. I rarely give pig's ears as they are quite fatty ~ mine get maybe 2 or 3 a year! So perhaps cutting down on the pig's ears would be a good idea?

I would definitely suggest that you have a chat with your vet when you see him. Is Dougie on any pain or anti-inflammatory medication for his arthritis? Sometimes these medications can cause digestive problems.

But bear in mind, lots of vets won't advice raw or BARF feeding for a variety of reasons, so your vet may suggest that you feed Dougie a commercial processed diet instead.

I dont know an awful lot about raw feeding but it sounds like he is having too much bone hence the yellow crumbly poo.

Hmmmm interesting. I willl definately reduce the pigs ears, I wasnt aware they were so fatty.

Yes, I would deffo say its worse after the chicken carcus... but then I am confused as I really dont give him that much bone. I think I am going to cut down on the pigs ears, and maybe split the carcus into 2 and feed on separate days with soft meat, as not to overload his system. Maybe cut down on the wings as well?

He is not currently on any medication, but I have decided to put him on Metacam soon - which I am discussing with the vet.

He does seem to have to strain a bit sometimes, and I am worried about the fact he doesnt know he is doing it, sometime hes asleep in his bed, or chewing a bone and he poos without realising.

Would it be worth giving him meat chunks, as opposed to soft mince...? More for him to get his chops around

You could try leaving out a different item every week or so to see if that makes any difference.

From what I understand, BARF can be tricky to get just right; I'm sure more experienced 'barfers' will be along to advise you

[QUOTE=Avani;2139624]Hmmmm interesting. I willl definately reduce the pigs ears, I wasnt aware they were so fatty.

Yes, I would deffo say its worse after the chicken carcus... but then I am confused as I really dont give him that much bone. I think I am going to cut down on the pigs ears, and maybe split the carcus into 2 and feed on separate days with soft meat, as not to overload his system. Maybe cut down on the wings as well?

He is not currently on any medication, but I have decided to put him on Metacam soon - which I am discussing with the vet.

He does seem to have to strain a bit sometimes, and I am worried about the fact he doesnt know he is doing it, sometime hes asleep in his bed, or chewing a bone and he poos without realising.[/QUOTE]

I would definitely mention that to your vet as that's not normal. And possibly splitting the carcass into 2 meals would help.

I have 2 labs who probably have as much, if not more, bones than your dog but their poos are only occasionally hard or crumbly. But canine digestive systems cabn be very different (as with people!) so what one dog tolerates, doesn't always suit another.

Giving muscle meat in large chunks is good provided your dog will chew & grind it up ~ but IME, many dogs (esp labs!) will just swallow it whole, then bring it up, then swallow it whole etc etc If the muscle meat is at least attached to some bone, it does slow them down & force them to crunch it up a bit.

Giving muscle meat in large chunks is good provided your dog will chew & grind it up ~ but IME, many dogs (esp labs!) will just swallow it whole, then bring it up, then swallow it whole etc etc .[/QUOTE]
YEP!

Vets next week then and I might rethink his whole diet and see if I can come up with some solutions.... the meat chunks thing is an interesting idea... but I really do have to give it serious thought, as the reason why he gets a whole carcus at the moment is because its so large he has to think how he is going to eat it, as opposed to the chick wings which he chews once and swallows

Have you checked with your suppliers about the bone content in minces? For example, I know my supplier has around 5-10% bone in their chicken minces but most other minces are bone-free. However, I've heard some places have really high bone-content in their chicken minces (they'll basically just mince carcasses with very little muscle meat added) and still contain bone in their non-chicken minces, which can cause issues with overall bone content if you're solely feeding minces as your meat part of the diet. I feed prey model so that's about 10% bone is isn't that much - for 40kg/88lb Casper, that's only just over 1lb bone a week, and the carcasses I get probably weigh around 1lb so he'd only get one carcass a week, or say 4 wings, or 8 necks, something like that, it's not a very large volume. I know BARF has a higher bone content but I certainly notice the difference in poos if I feed more than that.
Definately agree with trying to feed chunkier stuff alongside the minces, e.g. mine get chunks of heart, chicken breasts, fish fillets, etc. too. Helps keep the teeth and jaw in good shape (requires more chewing than mince) and will reduce the bone content in the diet if minces are quite high. Feeding it frozen might help with making them chew it? Kiki does gulp stuff down quite quickly but will give things at least a few munches.

Thanks Krlyr - I will deffinately check that. From what I know one of my supplies its just meat and offal but I havent thought to check the other supplier so will email them now.

I am certainly going to read up more about Prey Modal if it doesnt contain as much bone, and maybe steer towards that than BARF (I am currently putting together a quote for my aunts 3 cats who are currently on Sheba )

Thanks

if my dogs poo gets too dry, I give them more offal (hearts / liver) That always sorts it. Some mince contains a lot of bone btw.