Thanks, I just wish I could get things across in a better way. I am so aware that on boards/email etc words can come across all wrong.

I agree voice and body language are really important. It's amazing how interesting dogs become after dipping into the calming signals views of Turid Rugaas. You start to see things you just haven't realised before.

When I had other dogs, I used Leave in a gruff voice and my voice and body language often had the desired effect. However, since I've learnt from some good trainers I have done something so much better, which is to teach the Leave correctly, using the starting off technique outlined/shown on It's me or the Dog on the first programme of this series? You can use clicker or not, it makes no difference.

What then happens is you can get amazing control - and if you as owner/trainer want to progress, you can over a few months train the dog (all reward based) to get to the stage where it will Leave running animals. I concentrated on this a lot as the area I live in has a lot of deer and I needed this more than any other command almost. I trained it "ruthlessly" and got fab results. My dog will now recall off running animals when she's in predatory chase mode. This is why I love these methods, because if the training is put in, you can get excellent results:smt026 [/QUOTE]



Yes, I understand I share your views on electric shock! as you know Usually if an owner goes to a local apdt class, methods such as the one I've mentioned above (watch me, and leave it etc) are taught in a different way to DB and they are very accessible for owners (and if taught correctly and owners continue/practise, effective).

Yes!

I change my mind every day ... ... seriously, it's good to talk

Wys
x

Lesson time!

Wysiwyg - could you briefly (if possible?!) explain the starting off technique? Or point me to a website if its quite long?
Also, how did you teach the watch me? Presumably saying it and when she looks at you you treat?

I'd love to show you AJL
I am not sure there are any websites with it on, there may well be but I've not checked. Yes! you're not far off with the Watch Me but I help it along a bit.

If you like I can do a new topic thread on it, then it won't detract from this thread. I only hope I can explain it over the internet! I'll certainly give it a go.

If you don't mind waiting I'll do it over the weekend, as I need to think how to put it across properly!/remind me also to mention self control exercises for the dog

Wys
x

Hmmm... a Chihuahua tonight. Now, people say pugs aren't real dogs!

I shared Mic's frustration with the chihuahua. Why oh why do people spoil their dog(s) to such a degree. I don't think there's a more reliable way to end up with an unruly dog than to try and humanise it, or do everything for it.

I'd have bet money on Mic not keeping the Chihuahua though.

Didn't you just know Mic would do a swap!!!:smt042

hehe Yup. Soon as he went to speak to Rob, I thought, as I bet Rob did, "I know what you're after..." lol

More astonishingly though, I couldn't believe how Mark(?) let his two dogs walk all over him at playtimes. Then he wondered why the dogs had no respect for him on the training field!?

Is it me??

Tonight's episode was the first I've watched of this series and found that the training still leaves a heck of a lot to be desired.

The chi! Did you notice how when at the training camp how nervous he was? Did you also noticed that as the training progressed and the rattle bottle introduced the dog went into pure quandry mode actually backing away from his owner? Would any of you have honestly dumped that dog in the stark kennel, quivering and tail tucked and left him there? Did you notice the difference in the dog's whole demenour from the test to the re-visit after the dog had returned home? I wonder why? Could it be because the owner had learnt that she needed to encourage her dog to be a dog, but still interacted with him in order to maintain a relationship once she got him home??

The Dane - the only difference I could see in the 'real' World was that you would expect with more control via a headcollar. However, the collar was badly introduced and I would suggest that that particular dog is at risk of serious neck injury from its use.

The two Staffie x's - it didn't need an expert to see the problem there did it ?

I won't go into the rattle bottle issue again, but I can't say that I noticed the dog do anything that any normal dog couldn't cope with.

Without hesitation, if my past actions (or lack thereof) had ruined the dog to the degree that this one had been. I gather, from your deliberate inclusion of the words "stark", "quivering", and "dumped", that you wouldn't. Why not, may I ask?

Quite simply because there's no need to scare a dog to the extent that this dog was scared to achieve a result. Furthermore, I'd suggest that it actually impeded progress with this dog. I'd love to be able to talk to the owner to see how she progressed the training when she returned home because if I were guessing, I would say that this dog progressed more when the relationship took on a more 'normal' state.

It wasn't the only dog on the programme to exhibit unacceptable stress at being put straight into a strange kennel. It is not necessary to stress dogs out to the point of showing signs such as quivering, tail tucking, tail spinning etc to achieve results. To my mind, it's cruel pure and simple. It's even more cruel when it is so unnecessary

Must my opinion