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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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16-11-2006, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie 
About prong. No, I don't use it to my current tervs. No need to. If needed, I'd use it, but in Finland it is forbidden by law. Right use of the prong is very humane for dog. But you mostly see wrong use, so that's about it.
But I have use it on my male, who has already passed away few years ago. And at that rehearsal I wouldn't have use it , if I'd known better at that time.
J
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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16-11-2006, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie
And this is to all: Well, now I'd love to know, WHAT is the efficient way to use food as rewards on your opinion? And I'd love to see your own ideas, no copypasting or links, because those links prove me only that you can read. Good copypaster is not necessarily a good trainer. Lets take something simple, heeling, turns, how to do it with food, why, and how to do it in competition or test, when the dog is ready?
J
However the dog also gets toys and play etc as rewards once the basics are learnt....
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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16-11-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie
If dog doesn't want to consider you as the leader, the boss, the one and the only, what do you do then? Nelli's sire also had few mistakes about the sunshine routes, but Nelli didn't. So I had to solve it. How would you solve 'independent dog'-problem?
J
Well actually I disagree, it is down to a great deal of effort from the moment they came home , using methods that have evolved over many years rather than been taught by someone else. We have still yet to hear how you train using pack drive or even any reference posted by you as to how even elementary commands are taught, even though you have been asked repeatedly by various people.
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Location: Finland
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 55
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16-11-2006, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble
Oh do you think it is by accident that my dogs think of me as wonderful
Originally Posted by Trouble
We have still yet to hear how you train using pack drive or even any reference posted by you as to how even elementary commands are taught, even though you have been asked repeatedly by various people.
Those questions I made have answers inside also. Dogs and pack drive works the same way, they learn to seek an answer and satisfaction thru understanding and finding it. Reward and succes comes when it solves the problem right way. Food is used as reward, so is rewarding with pack drive. Thats why I asked why dogs have drives. Or are you really saying that learn the dog sit using food means putting 50 kilos of sausage on its loin area, so it can't stand anymore?
J
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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16-11-2006, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie
No I don't. That was just a plain question.
It is there, but seems that you didn't read it because you have been too busy to find dots in wrong places. Heel and sit, two basic commands are in this thread already. And when the dog knows what it is to sit in front of me, it also knows how to do it on the distance. On normal walks dog just has to come close to me so I can touch it and in the beginning I just used a long light line. When I said "come", dog didn't had too many options, which again doesn't need any violence or forcing, because relationship was built already at home. Later I just hide in the bushes, they will come to look for me.
Those questions I made have answers inside also. Dogs and pack drive works the same way, they learn to seek an answer and satisfaction thru understanding and finding it. Reward and succes comes when it solves the problem right way. Food is used as reward, so is rewarding with pack drive. Thats why I asked why dogs have drives. Or are you really saying that learn the dog sit using food means putting 50 kilos of sausage on its loin area, so it can't stand anymore?
J
Originally Posted by Trouble
Ok well I think it was me that posted that link, when I was searching around looking for an explanation of exactly what pack drive is. I also said that I find much of the jargon used today a bit bewildering and I have always trained my dogs very successfully but in a fashion I sometimes find hard to explain to others. I do what comes naturally to me and it seems to work very well. I too always teach my dog to be very focused on me but actually never use a lead while training, unless of course teaching lead work. I do however use food in the very early stages but it is soon dispensed with. So I don't think you should feel as though you have been jumped on, I think something has been lost in translation somewhere along the way, and while no dog can be trained on a forum as far as I know the dogs don't read the posts the owners do, and all we wanted was an explanation so that we can understand and perhaps discuss your training methods.
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Location: Stirlingshire
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,203
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16-11-2006, 04:43 PM
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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16-11-2006, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by inkliveeva
Your right Trouble soooo long, lets stop now, I agree pack drive is a lot to do with the natural things like hiding in the woods, making the dog look for us its how I started walking Inka and Kain, I never called I made them have to look where I was going, I want to analyse the scent whistling theory now...please.
Sorry if anyone thinks I am having a go at jenni, I am just trying to discover what this bl**dy packdrive is, turns out I have probably been using it for over 30years in complete ignorance
so there you go
In my case ignorance has been bliss.
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Location: Finland
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 55
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16-11-2006, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble
I don't use jargon such as pack drive, but some of the methods you use such as hiding in the woods lots of us having been using for over 30 years it really is nothing new and revolutionary.
J
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Location: Romford, uk
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 14,265
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16-11-2006, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie
Most of people in here are under 30 years of age, but thats nothing new and revolutionary either. And I never said it was anything new and revolutionary, but of course calling pack drive 'pack drive' is easier than say 'hide-in-the-woods-have-fun-with-your-dog-touch-it-talk-to-it-drive' , don't ya think so...
J
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Location: Finland
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 55
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16-11-2006, 05:28 PM
What ever, read all of it just the way you want. I wrote earlier that banging my head in the wall doesn't increase my drives. This is now just meaningless arguing. If it makes you feel better, I say: yes, I haven't been clear. No, I am not understandable. Yes, I have lost in translation, Yes, you are right. Yes, I will use food. Yes, I love those links.
Happy now?
J
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