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emem2323
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Location: Northumberland, UK
Joined: Jun 2009
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29-06-2009, 06:50 PM
Ah FABI......you are a star!! Thank you for all your valuable advice. You are right and I love how you ve explaned it for me. I have got myself in such a tizzy about this and its quite simple......shes feeding off me!
It did make me laugh when you said that when I am verbally scolding her......to her I am barking! Oh god, she thinks I am fine with this behaviour!.....I didnt realise!

Thank you for the advice about the muzzle. I first thought oh, no thats cruel......but like you said, if I reinforce using the muzzle with pleasureable treats and loves, then that ll work.
I did have one of those long leads for Katie when she was a pup....found I got tangled in it most the time as the little minx ran rings round me! I generally know when a nearby field will be free of other dogs and so I ll stick to letting her off lead there when theres no on about and then I can work on being fun mum!!

I must be honest, we dont do half as much training when on walks with Katie as we used to when she was younger. We established the basic commands but then very often forget to find time to reinforce them. Mind, she still knows what they mean but your right, perhaps Im just not that much fun anymore! She finds her Dad (hubbie) loads of fun......mabye thats another reason why shes better behaved with him. Shes such a bright thing as well. Would love to get her into agility or something when we resolve this problem!

Thank you for your advice. It has been very helpful X.

ALI-Ah, another with the same problem! I would love all the details of that class. Thanks. I am in Morpeth. So does your dog still display signs of fear aggression now? How long have you been going to the class?
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Fabi
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29-06-2009, 09:23 PM
You're very welcome, so glad you can see what is happening and that you can now have a good laugh at yourself in this situation. I had no doubt that she was a good girl all along.

Yes I agree to give her freedom everytime you feel comfortable but don't be afraid to start training again when there are other dogs around.
Ask your council if they could give you a list of the dog trainers that use their community halls, the vets and doggie people are a good source of information regarding training classes.

Well done you and keep us all updated with your's and Katie's progress. All the very best.
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Ali
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30-06-2009, 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by emem2323 View Post
ALI-Ah, another with the same problem! I would love all the details of that class. Thanks. I am in Morpeth. So does your dog still display signs of fear aggression now? How long have you been going to the class?

Hi

It would not be too far from you, Its up near Alnwick.

We have been going near on 2 years now, he will still react to strange dogs, but nowhere near as bad.

However he has competed in working trials (not overly successful but was excellently behaved! ) We passed Bronze Silver and Gold Good Citizen. We also do agility where he can be off lead in the arena with the other dogs.

All this from a dog that was on the verge of going back to the shelter and probably being put down there.

Here he is with one of his certifiactes



Ali and Obi
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emem2323
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30-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Obi looks great with his certificate! He looks very proud (holding his head up high! ).

The class seems to have helped you and Obi remarkably! Really pleased! Well done to you all!

I am new to 'dogsey' and having problems accessing my private messages, so havent been able to read the information you sen tme, but I will persevere and hopefully get the information re. the Alnwick class asap.

I think agility would be great for Katie, so it d be good to get her involved in that also. Mind, if someone can get Katie to not pay attention to others dogs when there all around her.....I ll be stunned!

Thanks Ali x
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Ali
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30-06-2009, 06:37 PM
Ive just emailed you the info through. I have no doubts if it were not for the help we got there Obi would not be with us now!
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Fabi
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30-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Ali, you are my type of doggie friend, it is not easy to take on such a big strong dog and have the difficult task you had in front of you and my goodness you given Obi an amazing active life. I bet you feel great when you walk with him because you can feel pride in his behaviour. He must be so intellegent and what a stunner.

My Fabi, Rottweiler, GSD mix, if you put your hand on your dining room table and go straight out.........that was the height of his back. He had been muzzled for 7 1/2 years and I got him when he was nine. I had two dogs of my own. I have known him all his life and knew, not only did he attack everydog he saw but he had killed two dogs. By right he shouldn't have been alive. (Best friend died and no-one would take him on) Within 3 weeks muzzle came off, in 6 weeks playing freely with 9 other dogs in park, within 10 weeks in training classes, in all, he received Beyond Gold K.C., was a stooge dog, done dog displays in village fairs and helped fund raise for Hearing dogs for the Deaf. We said goodbye to him on his 13th Birthday, 1st June 2009. I was so proud of my Big Man and I feel privilaged and honoured to have had him in my life. I miss him deeply.

Emem, if you think you could get to one of the classes that Ali is speaking off, I think it sounds excatly what you are looking for. You will get the support system with those type of classes. Keep us informed and let us how you get on. I wish you the best of luck and hey, looks like Katie may get a boyfriend.
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Ali
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01-07-2009, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Fabi View Post
Ali, you are my type of doggie friend, it is not easy to take on such a big strong dog and have the difficult task you had in front of you and my goodness you given Obi an amazing active life. I bet you feel great when you walk with him because you can feel pride in his behaviour. He must be so intellegent and what a stunner.

My Fabi, Rottweiler, GSD mix, if you put your hand on your dining room table and go straight out.........that was the height of his back. He had been muzzled for 7 1/2 years and I got him when he was nine. I had two dogs of my own. I have known him all his life and knew, not only did he attack everydog he saw but he had killed two dogs. By right he shouldn't have been alive. (Best friend died and no-one would take him on) Within 3 weeks muzzle came off, in 6 weeks playing freely with 9 other dogs in park, within 10 weeks in training classes, in all, he received Beyond Gold K.C., was a stooge dog, done dog displays in village fairs and helped fund raise for Hearing dogs for the Deaf. We said goodbye to him on his 13th Birthday, 1st June 2009. I was so proud of my Big Man and I feel privilaged and honoured to have had him in my life. I miss him deeply.

Emem, if you think you could get to one of the classes that Ali is speaking off, I think it sounds excatly what you are looking for. You will get the support system with those type of classes. Keep us informed and let us how you get on. I wish you the best of luck and hey, looks like Katie may get a boyfriend.
Im sorry you lost your boy, but at least you know the difference you made ot his life.

We still have a way to go but im sure we will get there! Mind it was a shock to the system never having had a dog before and to be honest not knowing the task ahead as we were told all was fine with him.

It is all worth it though, tonight he was sniffing other dogs which seems trivial but believe me it is a big thing as im sure you will understand.

As you said as well a lot of it is the support you get from others going through the same thing, I thought I was the only one!

Im sure Katie will do great!
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Fabi
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01-07-2009, 09:35 PM
Your 1st dog, you're amazing, well done!

Obi's doing brilliantly, I know to many it may not sound much but now he's on the road to making new friends and with all the work you have put into him he is showing you he really wants to please you. Good boy.

Hope you and Emem and Katie get together soon, then you will be able to show her she is not alone. knowning she isn't the only one feeling the way she does, all will help her to relax around other people and dogs. I always say, that going to classes is like going to the pub for the dogs, well maybe not a beer but all have treats.
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Wysiwyg
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02-07-2009, 06:48 AM
[QUOTE=Fabi;1717683]

As for APDT or other organisations, they have to write an essay and pay for them to come out and view a class....that qualifys people to become behaviours
Incorrect - this is what happens:

http://www.apdt.co.uk/dog_trainer_membership.asp the pass criteria is pretty difficult - not all trainers understand operant conditioning for example. Or they get it wrong. Then if the person passes, they are NOT a behaviourist as you suggest. They are accepted as a trainer.

Many organisations accept anyone regardless of knowledge or methods.


There is one around my area APDT member and she is known to put dogs on prozac and/or PTS.
Trainers and behaviourists do NOT prescribe drugs - vets only can do this in conjunction with the Veterinary Surgeons Act. So a vet would have to be prescribing the drugs. Trainers and behaviourists are on tricky ground if they even suggest a drug as far as I am aware, although they do have to know about it and how such drugs may effect the dog and the training or behaviour work they are doing with the dog.



Wys
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Wysiwyg
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02-07-2009, 07:05 AM
Originally Posted by emem2323 View Post
In my last post I explained my husband doesn have the same problem with Katie when he passes another dog, so i am left thinking it could very well be my insecurity/fear when walking her that causes the scene!
This is a possibility, what happens when you and your husband walk together?

To regain control over Katie I always pull back on the lead, tighten my grip and then verbally scold her afterwards with the usual....'No!' 'Bad girl' (in my cross voice)
You say you tell her off "afterwards" - is this after she's barked and lunged? Hard to tell without seeing it but either she may think you are joining in, or she may feel you tell her off when other dogs are around and so she must get rid of them first. Or it could be something else entirely

I had a dog aggressive BSD bitch (who is now fine with other dogs) and never told her off, but I did a lot of work with her using food and toys to get her to associate other dogs with good things. Usually "aggressive" behaviour is fear based on some level although not always, so telling off doesn't help really

What needs to be done is to find out if there are any physical causes (eg thorough vet check, this may include blood tests or more) and then work on managing the behaviour and altering her conditioned emotional response. It's probably a bit harder than it sounds

My also post also metions what happened on our walk yesterday when Katie was bitten after chasing after another dogs ball when it was thrown! Its like she has no dog ettiquette!!
Belgians sometimes don't. They are act first, often, and think later dogs. They can get very adrenalised and exciteable and teaching control (self control) is quite important with them

Does she have her own toys on walks? do you interract with her on walks?

Katie rarely now gets the opportunity to socialise with other dogs. If she is off the lead, we are always looking out for other dogs and when we see one, she is put straight on the lead. That initially was only because we couldnt get her back if she saw the dog as she would bound towards the dog and they d play chase forever!!
A big possibility is frustration then as I think has been mentioned somewhere ... I find with BSds it's best to use toys and food as rewards but to have one special toy (many love the kong on a rope as it bounces erratically) to control with. Never call the dog back if it is playing unless you have reason to and have taught a very reliable, advanced chase recall/leave it. Otherwise, you are teaching the dog to ignore you

Only approximately a year and a half ago though, Katie had loads of dog friends at our old home. Once, she was socialising happily with about 10 dogs all on the field at the same time. Think she thought all her Christmas' had come at once! Though even then she would charge over for another dog's ball, but backed down a lot quicker back then! She also had regular doggy friends that she would happily play chase with. Now she has no one......putting it like that now, I feel a bit sorry for her!
I expect she does miss the canine interaction ....

Sorry, this is a bit long winded, just trying to give the right amount of information so I can get more valuable advice!

I definitely think I will get her a thorough health check at the vets and if all that is fine (which I really hope it is!), then I will hunt for a dog trainer!

Thanks all x
Great idea. I suspect frustration may be at the root of this but it's best to check out physical problems in case - then that door can be "shut" and it can be assumed that the problem is rooted more in behaviour/training.

Do you know what the other part of the mix may be?

I see you are in Northumberland - be careful! I will PM you as to why if that's OK

Good luck

Wys
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