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Wysiwyg
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16-11-2006, 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie View Post
. I've even seen really "gourou" person telling me how my dog switched drive when pullin prong and when pulling leather. And that animal was just playing all the time. Actually it was just happyhappyhappy.

J
When you say "pulling prong" and "pulling leather" are you meaning collars? Surely you don't use prong collars on your tervs, do you?
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Wysiwyg
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16-11-2006, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie View Post
Dog bonded to me, when I used me and bonded to food when I used food. Dog had no respect on either one. And as far as I have seen on training fields, that is the most common problem for normal people, as you said are visiting on this forum. Food and dogs' disrespect. And no pribing, how nicely you theoretize or explain or excuse, makes respect.
J
I understand i think what you are saying, but I think most good, efficient trainers would agree that taking dogs to more advanced levels of training means you simply cannot use food as a "bribe" as it won't work at that level .

THe owner/handler has to understand how to use food rewards correctly, and most will also use a myriad of other rewards as has already been mentioned.

I used a lot of pack drive with my first 2 tervs, and perhaps less with my current one, but I have a good bond with this one and in some ways actually have more control in for instance chase situations.
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Dujoiedevie
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16-11-2006, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
I understand i think what you are saying, but I think most good, efficient trainers would agree that taking dogs to more advanced levels of training means you simply cannot use food as a "bribe" as it won't work at that level .
Yep. And now comes the point again: How many good, efficient trainers you think are asking questions in here? Wasn't this thread for those who are not that efficient?

And this is to all: Well, now I'd love to know, WHAT is the efficient way to use food as rewards on your opinion? And I'd love to see your own ideas, no copypasting or links, because those links prove me only that you can read. Good copypaster is not necessarily a good trainer. Lets take something simple, heeling, turns, how to do it with food, why, and how to do it in competition or test, when the dog is ready?

With pack drive I turn and when dog follows, I say "hyvä!" (meaning "good") In the competition the dog knows, what makes me smile, and that means the same for her as "Hyvä". If you ask how the dog knows to follow, answer is very simple. Do you know it?

J
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Ramble
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16-11-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
When you say "pulling prong" and "pulling leather" are you meaning collars? Surely you don't use prong collars on your tervs, do you?
i wondered that too......
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Trouble
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16-11-2006, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie View Post
Yep. And now comes the point again: How many good, efficient trainers you think are asking questions in here? Wasn't this thread for those who are not that efficient?

And this is to all: Well, now I'd love to know, WHAT is the efficient way to use food as rewards on your opinion? And I'd love to see your own ideas, no copypasting or links, because those links prove me only that you can read. Good copypaster is not necessarily a good trainer. Lets take something simple, heeling, turns, how to do it with food, why, and how to do it in competition or test, when the dog is ready?

With pack drive I turn and when dog follows, I say "hyvä!" (meaning "good") In the competition the dog knows, what makes me smile, and that means the same for her as "Hyvä". If you ask how the dog knows to follow, answer is very simple. Do you know it?

J
If this thread was for the not so efficient trainers it has done nothing to aid or inform in any way. Anyone who was mystified in the beginning is probably only better aware now due to the copy pasting and cross referencing that has gone on.

And yeah I told you before my dogs follow me as they see me as their leader and think the sun shines out of my butt and all things wonderful emanate from me
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Dujoiedevie
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16-11-2006, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
i wondered that too......
About prong. No, I don't use it to my current tervs. No need to. If needed, I'd use it, but in Finland it is forbidden by law. Right use of the prong is very humane for dog. But you mostly see wrong use, so that's about it.
But I have use it on my male, who has already passed away few years ago. And at that rehearsal I wouldn't have use it , if I'd known better at that time. It was used to make dog change drive from prey to defense on hide. It didn't work, and how should it? You can not change drives like you'd press buttons. Dog works on the area the circumstances require. On the competition and training it was always on prey - or I'd call it play. At work with me it changed his drive - or I'd say attitude - from a pet to a guard dog and saved twice my life. Circumstances.

And with packdrive you don't need prong. Leather is much more effective.

More in topic questions?

J
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Dujoiedevie
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16-11-2006, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
And yeah I told you before my dogs follow me as they see me as their leader and think the sun shines out of my butt and all things wonderful emanate from me
Well lets play that you have a dog with same structure as you have what comes to butts. What would you do then?

Very soon you are asking why I am asking all the time. I'd like to see you thinking. Ready answers are very easy and nice, but you didn't get those at elementary school either. Why do people need ready answers in dogtraining, which is mainly only to be a little bit more clever than the dog.

J
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inkliveeva
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16-11-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post


And yeah I told you before my dogs follow me as they see me as their leader and think the sun shines out of my butt and all things wonderful emanate from me
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours faithful and true till the last beat of his heart.
We owe it to them to be worthy of such devotion.
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Trouble
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16-11-2006, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dujoiedevie View Post
Well lets play that you have a dog with same structure as you have what comes to butts. What would you do then?

Very soon you are asking why I am asking all the time. I'd like to see you thinking. Ready answers are very easy and nice, but you didn't get those at elementary school either. Why do people need ready answers in dogtraining, which is mainly only to be a little bit more clever than the dog.

J
Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean
Well lets play that you have a dog with same structure as you have what comes to butts. What would you do then?
Can you try again please something missing in translation I think
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Dujoiedevie
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16-11-2006, 03:10 PM
If dog doesn't want to consider you as the leader, the boss, the one and the only, what do you do then? Nelli's sire also had few mistakes about the sunshine routes, but Nelli didn't. So I had to solve it. How would you solve 'independent dog'-problem?

J
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