Non Reward Markers - Discuss

Their is often discussion where non reward markers fall under the OC quadrant?

My view?

Traditionally you would look at the whole exercise when deciding wherein the quadrant it falls.

However, i see view 2 exercises that are different under OC....

the verbal cue part - ie, "ah- ha" - is positive punishment.

the removal of the reward that this cue indicates is about to happen -ie, withdrawal of the treat or toy or whatever - is negative punishment.

what do you think?

any input folks?

Not sure---I use 'wrong' to say try something else or sorry you don't get a reward for that cause I didn't ask for it.

I suppose that is a neg punishment marker in theory?

rune

Yes I agree I think
If it works then saying 'no' or ah ah' or whatever is something added that makes the behaviour less likely to happen so it is positive punishemnt
Removing the treat is negative punishment

I used to use a quiet 'no' but I do find it works like punishment in that it supresses behaviour and makes a dog less likely to try things (if they are sensitive like Ben)

Tricky question but so interesting.

Certainly ah ah and other noises used as nrm can be aversive to dogs. I think Jean d mentions this in the culture clash. Often people will use short sharp high pitched tones which most dogs (sensitive ones) will find mildly unpleasent.

I suppose given time most dogs will habituate to the tone/sound and decied that its just a signal and the loss of the food is the bad thing. But what the dog feels might be different. Maybe even the habituated dog feels bad when hearing the nrm as it reduces reward. That feeling bad could be an aversive to the dog.

I think any punishment will make a dog less of a tryer, any reinforcment more of a tryer, even if that reinforcment is negative.

Adam

I agree with the theory of the other posters, i.e. the "no" or "ah ah" would be +ve pun provided that the unwanted behaviour decreases, & removal of the treat/reward, would be -ve pun. But I suspect that in practice, it very much depends on how these cues have been taught & the perceptions of each individual dog as to whether a "no" is +ve pun.