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bajaluna
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05-06-2008, 11:30 PM
great post steve,shamus is alot happier since we changed his diet to home cooked white meat and a variety of veggies and his fav is banana,it has also allowed us to drop his seizure meds and still have the same control
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Lene
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06-06-2008, 07:51 AM
I like your posts, Patch...

Cheers
Lene
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Steve Wishart
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06-06-2008, 05:17 PM
It appears that almost every post I make, my opinions and expressions are taken out of context and I have words put into my mouth by those who are disputing my original points (valid or not).

On the last page, almost everyone who replied assumed that I wasn't prepared to open my mind to Evie's thoughts on the matter. As I told Evie, if she could point me in the right direction with regards to new research on dog feeding, then I would be kindly grateful, as it is, Evie was more interested in picking apart my argument regarding wether or not dogs are carnivores or omnivores. As I said, pedantic, seeing as it was neither here nor there within the bigger picture, it was just something Evie disagreed with me on and felt so strongly about such a trivial topic, she felt like challenging me on it. Not one bit of redirection was thrown my way, just an argument on a topic that scaled in comparison to the actual discussion going on. That's what slightly annoyed me, I haven't dismissed the theory and yet here I am, apparently refusing to accept the theory? I'll accept it, when I have done some reading on it. So again, if anyone could redirect me to some stats, some research along with facts, I'll be more than happy to perhaps reassess my view on feeding. As it is, I don't know Evie and I know nothing of any research on raw feeding, so how was I supposed to know... ?

It's also said that in a nutshell, I expected everyone here on Dogsey to not be clued up, to be honest, I had no expectations whatsoever when I posted the opening post. It was purely to help any new owners who didn't know any better and who were thinking of spashing out plenty of cash on a behaviourist who will only tell them to do one of the things I listed, apologies for taking the time to help people who don't know any better and upsetting all you know-it-all's who had nothing better to do than to pick it apart with a fine tooth comb and pull me up on things that weren't even said and things that despite being labelled wrong, are still essentially the same thing. Again, too bloody pedantic.

Evie, I stopped reading your latest post in reply to mine after the 1st quote of mine was misunderstood by you. The question mark was in general to the paragraph, it wasn't me asking for your opinion on wether or not dog's need walking for different periods, especially seeing as I said that they do in my first post.

But then, I suppose I did create this topic as a post for generally anybody to read and as such, every know it all has posted thinking I am talking about a direct reference to their dog for some strange reason.

Dogs are different, dogs can't be generalised and neither can their behaviour, no idea why I bothered posting this post trying to again, defend something that I am accused of saying, but never did, no doubt it will also be taken out of context and I'll be judged upon what other pedantics members putting words into my mouths.

Oh and as for flooding, that has no bearing what so ever on my ability to train dogs or is it a measured opinion on my behavioural courses. At least I understand the term as opposed to being some bloody narrow mindedly fickled to rule it out without actually understanding everything about it.

Sorry to all of those who have actually taken the time to be decent members and have made an effort at making me feel welcomed, sadly, it appears that too many members here are so pig-headed, deriving their own opinions on what others DON'T say (thats a first in my forum experience and I have many) and as such, I'm not too sure if this place will allow me to achieve what I wanted to join for, to learn more. I thought that I could learn a thing or two, unfortunately, I have done so in a very condescending way and in a very misunderstood way and I'm not too sure if I wish to hang about in this place for much longer.

I was warned by several members upon joining that this place had too many people who quite frankly had their heads up their own backsides, I dismissed it, but now it appears that this may very well be true.
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Shona
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06-06-2008, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart View Post
It appears that almost every post I make, my opinions and expressions are taken out of context and I have words put into my mouth by those who are disputing my original points (valid or not).

On the last page, almost everyone who replied assumed that I wasn't prepared to open my mind to Evie's thoughts on the matter. As I told Evie, if she could point me in the right direction with regards to new research on dog feeding, then I would be kindly grateful, as it is, Evie was more interested in picking apart my argument regarding wether or not dogs are carnivores or omnivores. As I said, pedantic, seeing as it was neither here nor there within the bigger picture, it was just something Evie disagreed with me on and felt so strongly about such a trivial topic, she felt like challenging me on it. Not one bit of redirection was thrown my way, just an argument on a topic that scaled in comparison to the actual discussion going on. That's what slightly annoyed me, I haven't dismissed the theory and yet here I am, apparently refusing to accept the theory? I'll accept it, when I have done some reading on it. So again, if anyone could redirect me to some stats, some research along with facts, I'll be more than happy to perhaps reassess my view on feeding. As it is, I don't know Evie and I know nothing of any research on raw feeding, so how was I supposed to know... ?

It's also said that in a nutshell, I expected everyone here on Dogsey to not be clued up, to be honest, I had no expectations whatsoever when I posted the opening post. It was purely to help any new owners who didn't know any better and who were thinking of spashing out plenty of cash on a behaviourist who will only tell them to do one of the things I listed, apologies for taking the time to help people who don't know any better and upsetting all you know-it-all's who had nothing better to do than to pick it apart with a fine tooth comb and pull me up on things that weren't even said and things that despite being labelled wrong, are still essentially the same thing. Again, too bloody pedantic.

Evie, I stopped reading your latest post in reply to mine after the 1st quote of mine was misunderstood by you. The question mark was in general to the paragraph, it wasn't me asking for your opinion on wether or not dog's need walking for different periods, especially seeing as I said that they do in my first post.

But then, I suppose I did create this topic as a post for generally anybody to read and as such, every know it all has posted thinking I am talking about a direct reference to their dog for some strange reason.

Dogs are different, dogs can't be generalised and neither can their behaviour, no idea why I bothered posting this post trying to again, defend something that I am accused of saying, but never did, no doubt it will also be taken out of context and I'll be judged upon what other pedantics members putting words into my mouths.

Oh and as for flooding, that has no bearing what so ever on my ability to train dogs or is it a measured opinion on my behavioural courses. At least I understand the term as opposed to being some bloody narrow mindedly fickled to rule it out without actually understanding everything about it.

Sorry to all of those who have actually taken the time to be decent members and have made an effort at making me feel welcomed, sadly, it appears that too many members here are so pig-headed, deriving their own opinions on what others DON'T say (thats a first in my forum experience and I have many) and as such, I'm not too sure if this place will allow me to achieve what I wanted to join for, to learn more. I thought that I could learn a thing or two, unfortunately, I have done so in a very condescending way and in a very misunderstood way and I'm not too sure if I wish to hang about in this place for much longer.

I was warned by several members upon joining that this place had too many people who quite frankly had their heads up their own backsides, I dismissed it, but now it appears that this may very well be true.


I think the above post just made you head president of that club,,,well done Im also pretty sure who the warning came from,
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Azz
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06-06-2008, 06:02 PM
If you post something on a forum you should be prepared for a discussion - because your opinions are not always shared by others.

I haven't read all the thread but attacking members (which is against our rules btw) gets you nowhere, if someone has made a point, address it. If someone is going off-topic, ignore them. By responding you are inviting the fork to continue.

With that said, I am aware that in large forums you will get all manner of different folk, some will pick you up on the details, some will disagree vehemently and make it known. The bottom line is, anything posted on a forum is inviting discussion, and this should be expected.

However, I have mentioned this previously, but in the interest of 'helping' newcomers in the dog world make up their minds, we will be running articles and how-tos, and people who believe in different ideologies will be invited to write a piece from their perspective. This will give the end user a large archive of information based upon differing methods, but without the discussion and comments like we see in this thread.

For example, We'll have a page for: Ways to bring up your dog. And after a brief description there will be links to the different articles that have been written from the different perspectives. That way, the end user gets to make up their own mind about what they feel is right for them.
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Steve Wishart
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06-06-2008, 06:25 PM
@ Shona,

I couldn't care less about any such 'club', I dismissed the original note and formed my own opinion, as I have always done. However, the sarcastic reply, if it is indeed sarcastic, was expected.

@ Azz

I understand that a discussion would take place, however the discussion that took place was not what was written in my post, but what was not written in my post. The same has been the key element through almost every 'challenge' reply that I have had to my posts. I'll agree completely that not everybody shares the same opinion, and I was happy discussing the 'pack mentality' opinion with others and even continued doing so in a thread that was spawned based on the original post. So I think it's been made pretty clear that I have no problems with discussions.

What I wasn't up for discussing was my ability as a dog behaviourist going on the fact that I simply didn't mention things. I mentioned that I have performed flooding before, so the discussion turned into people assuming that I don't perform the desensitizing method, which is false. I failed to mention that a vetinary check was one of the key areas also, yet because I didn't mention it, I was assumed to be wrong on that also. Again, I consider it key in assessing a dog, so again, another false comment.

I asked for Evie to give me examples amongst the theory that dogs don't need to eat any vegetables, instead of being given examples, everyone assumes that I won't listen to her theory... again, false. I didn't appreciate the condescending way in which she 'challenged' me on the off-topic discussion (again, based on something that I hadn't said), that's purely the only problem I had with the comment.

No idea about who I am apparently attacking, if you mean that I fail to show Evie any respect as a sort of knock on effect from how she spoke to me, then so be it, consider it as attacking. But as you said, you haven't read this thread.

If I was to ignore every off-topic comment, then this would not be a particularly lively thread at all.

I also understand that certain people pick up on the most minute details, but picking up and question on minute details that I didn't say? Come on, that's just ridiculous.

Anyway, it's all academics, it's quite clear that the situation here is that the experienced members already follow the same teaching method and refuse to accept someone who probably doesn't have as much experience compared to them, let alone try to explain in a helpful way why the views that they have are considered wrong by themselves. They'd rather sit on top of the forum with some sort of God-complex by the look and feel of things.
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Shona
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06-06-2008, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart View Post
@ Shona,

I couldn't care less about any such 'club', I dismissed the original note and formed my own opinion, as I have always done. However, the sarcastic reply, if it is indeed sarcastic, was expected.

@ Azz

I understand that a discussion would take place, however the discussion that took place was not what was written in my post, but what was not written in my post. The same has been the key element through almost every 'challenge' reply that I have had to my posts. I'll agree completely that not everybody shares the same opinion, and I was happy discussing the 'pack mentality' opinion with others and even continued doing so in a thread that was spawned based on the original post. So I think it's been made pretty clear that I have no problems with discussions.

What I wasn't up for discussing was my ability as a dog behaviourist going on the fact that I simply didn't mention things. I mentioned that I have performed flooding before, so the discussion turned into people assuming that I don't perform the desensitizing method, which is false. I failed to mention that a vetinary check was one of the key areas also, yet because I didn't mention it, I was assumed to be wrong on that also. Again, I consider it key in assessing a dog, so again, another false comment.

I asked for Evie to give me examples amongst the theory that dogs don't need to eat any vegetables, instead of being given examples, everyone assumes that I won't listen to her theory... again, false. I didn't appreciate the condescending way in which she 'challenged' me on the off-topic discussion (again, based on something that I hadn't said), that's purely the only problem I had with the comment.

No idea about who I am apparently attacking, if you mean that I fail to show Evie any respect as a sort of knock on effect from how she spoke to me, then so be it, consider it as attacking. But as you said, you haven't read this thread.

If I was to ignore every off-topic comment, then this would not be a particularly lively thread at all.

I also understand that certain people pick up on the most minute details, but picking up and question on minute details that I didn't say? Come on, that's just ridiculous.

Anyway, it's all academics, it's quite clear that the situation here is that the experienced members already follow the same teaching method and refuse to accept someone who probably doesn't have as much experience compared to them, let alone try to explain in a helpful way why the views that they have are considered wrong by themselves. They'd rather sit on top of the forum with some sort of God-complex by the look and feel of things.

Did I mention a good sense of humour helps when training dogs,, come on now steve dont be so upset by it all,,
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Azz
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06-06-2008, 06:45 PM
I already covered that:

Originally Posted by Azz View Post
If someone is going off-topic, ignore them. By responding you are inviting the fork to continue.
If they post off topic just ignore them, or, tell them to start a new thread about the topic and you'll happily put forward your 2p worth (if you so wish).

With regards to people failing to provide sources to back up their claims, well, people will see that, and their posted views will then undoubtedly carry less weight or lose all credibility altogether

With regards to attacking members, I was referring to your comment about too many members having their heads stuck up their own backsides. This really does you no favours as people will naturally be more hostile to you in response. As others have pointed out, sometimes we can appreciate and share in the frustration, yes, there are some members than can be a 'pain' - but we have to take the bad as well as the good, just like in real life. And as in real life you don't have to engage into a discussion with anyone you don't want to.
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ClaireandDaisy
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06-06-2008, 06:52 PM
Anyway....
to get back on topic:
I take it we all agree that with any dog with behavioural problems you look at diet, lifestyle and excercise. Ok - but in my opinion I`d also look at history, character / breeding - and most importantly, the people in the dog`s life.
So often a `problem` is merely a response to an intolerable situation, isn`t it? For instance a sedentary family having an active breed.
I`d be interested to hear from people who work with `problem` dogs what they consider is the main root cause for their unwanted behaviour.
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random
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06-06-2008, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Shona View Post
I have to say,,, yes the three things in this thread / food/ stimulation/ exercise cause many bad habbits that lead on to behavioural issues, but so many true behavioural issues are obtained from life experiance of the dog, third party problems,, eg, a firework went off behind my dog its now terrified to go out or of bangs, etc,
This is true, Maddy has and has always had good food/mental stimulation and a enough of exercise yet she still has problems so not always one of those 3 aspects but certainly a lot of the time but when you look at it, that is just basic, most good owners know what their dog needs.

Referring to your other post Shona (the first post) I think if someone chooses the wrong breed they are more likely to give up on a dog which they have caused the problems with or couldn't handle properly, as in my case you can also do everything right for your dog and still end up with problems due to something else beyond your control and if (just stating me as an example so I don't offend anyone else) say I felt weims were I breed a couldn't manage i'd have rehomed Maddy years ago. Some people have problems with their dogs but stick at it and they may have a problematic dog for years or indeed a lifetime as some things cannot be 100% resolved, but if they stick with their dog and do all they can for them to help the dog then I feel it is in such cases that it is more than someone choosing the wrong breed or not doing enough research into what they were taking on with a particular breed.

Hope that made sense.

Originally Posted by Shona View Post
[/i][/u][/i][/b]

I think the above post just made you head president of that club,,,well done Im also pretty sure who the warning came from,
Aye I have to say Steve I was with you 100% (apart from the Iams/Euk, yes good food but not worth the 'research' they do on animals IMO) 'til you said that.
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