DOBERMAN... no offence taken at all... as you can tell i am extreemly new to the world of training and am taking in everything being said.
I dont know if these man handling methods work on some dogs but it certainly doesnt work for Toby.
There is very little in the way of dog training in my area tbh but i am kind of thinking that kikopup and loads of questions here might be the way to go.
And i will be looking for a karen pryor book asap.

SMOKEYBEAR... she does have handouts but its what we have covered that leson so we can practice at home, but it only explains the methods she is using and not a choice of methods stating the pros and cons of each.

thanks for your input guys Claire

It is difficult I know
I was just really lucky to get to a good class with a great trainer
Some people start at really bad classes
Some OK classes

But you are comming from a great place imo - dont have loads of preconceived ideas about training so you can find the best way for you and your pup

I dont think you can go far wrong with some of the things you are looking at, just take it easy, try 1 or 2 behviours at a time and try and learn about your pup while you are doing them
every dog is different, its great fun finding the best way to work with your dog

To be honest, this is complete rubbish - sorry to sound so firm but it really is. She is teaching you and your dog HARD AND DIFFICULT ways to learn simple things!
It's not fair on you, or your dog.

I can't quite recall what Kikopup does, for stay, but it will be good

For your purpose, I'd use lure and reward and just remember to repeat (as that's one way dogs learn) and the golden rule, which is to teach again in different locations, starting in easy non distracting ones and building up to difficult distracting environments.

Wys
x

Kikopups way of teaching stay makes total sence... she teaches sit or down, click treat then says release so they can get up.
then she increases the time slowly before she says release, then she includes some distance etc.
She doesnt say the command stay, they just dont move untill they are released.
In her video, it doesnt matter what the dogs are doing, or where they are if she says sit or down they do it on the spot and dont move till she says release, its amazing

No it is NOT amazing, that is the whole point. If you say it is AMAZING you are implying that it is out of the ordinary or somehow she has a special gift; neither is true.

This is a result of planned, consistent training.

IE you get what you train, this is a fact of life.

So do NOT think it is amazing, think THAT is the standard to which you aspire, it is not difficult, the trainer is not "gifted" it is basic training which EVERYONE can achieve.

If you have trained a dog correctly then it should do what you have asked it to do until or unless you tell it to do something else.

the word STAY or WAIT means nothing to a dog per se whatever some owners think, because it is an abstract concept for a dog; a dog DOES understand SIT, DOWN, STAND because these are ACTIONS.

The click should mark the end of the behaviour---so if you click for a down the dog will release itself. If you want to click for a release that is different.

I don't click a release, I teach a solid down and reward after the click and then when the click is not needed or used the release is used comes and is a reward in itself.

I too haven't used a stay or wait command for years, no point in complicating things for the dog who is learning a foreign language.

I do use wait when I open the car door---but that is situational and with the high excitement levels I expect it is just another sound for the dogs!

rune

I'm glad you've seen the light and have had this brilliant advice on here. Now you need to read, watch and listen to as much information out there as you can, concentrating on the commands that you will always use and need. I must be of the old school, coz I do use a "wait" and a "stay", but it works for me, so use what works for you, it doesn't matter what's right and what's wrong as long as your dog "gets it" and obeys each time without question, that's the end game!

I honestly couldn't be without that "wait" of mine It's an imperative command for me with what I do with my dogs, either out and about, in the car, or here at home it means what it says, stop dead and don't move a muscle, blimey I even used it on the horse day in day out, I just couldn't live without it, so I can't understand why it's now flown out the window lol! If you're not going into the Obedience World and you're not going to be a trainer, then just take all the advice on board from everywhere and do what suits you with YOUR dog as BenMc has said, coz different things work better for differerent dogs in my experience. For instance, my old boy I rescued had to have short, sharp commands otherwise he just wouldn't listen, whereas if you did that to my youngster she'd be beside herself with worry, she has to have the softly, softly approach, but the more you do, the more you will learn about your particular dog.

By the time you've watched videos and read all the books and got advice on here, you'll be wondering what that trainer of yours was all about I'm sure! Remember practice really does make perfect

Take it easy, slowly but surely, he's still only young, and once you've got all those basics under your belt, you never know, you might want to go back to a higher dog training class and enjoy somemore. All the best.

Because if you have taught a Stand, sit or Down each one would achieve the same end without the addition of extra commands.

If I tell my dogs to hit a position they do, and they maintain it till told otherwise.

I agree with the others on this too

The one size fits all method your being given is not fair on you or the dog.
The 'amazing' stuff is the stuff that IS achieveable (though maybe not when you have a trainer not providing guidance and options..)
Its a learning curve - mistakes will be made - as long as you learn from them and move on - no harm done.

Try Karen Pryors Clicker Training For Dogs - (no I dont want to get into a debate about the box exercise) just because it is a very basic, easy and effective way for you to understand the clicker concept, shaping etc without being too daunting and will actually help you see what people like kikopup are actually doing - see past the amazing....since you dont have other trainers in the area (though if its possible it is well worth travelling to a good class)

oh, and then ask away

For the op - ignore what Im saying here - too many confusint things

Actually I have been clicking for position but not an end of behaviour for positions I want them to hold, I click and feed in position many times
I had been doing that for a while and now I see kikopup and slyvia trkman do them as well


For the op
slyvia trkman is also a really good trainer and she has online videos and as actually running an online puppy class where everyone sends in videos of their dogs and get homework and things
Not as good as a real class, but better than nothing - I love watching her puppy classes