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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
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14-06-2006, 06:51 PM
Check chains are painful and instruments of torture in the wrong hands, but no-one is looking to outlaw them. BUT they are looking to outlaw ecollars, legally, in this country Clob.
Why?
Never in all my time on DW have I come across someone who apparently finds it so difficult to put their argument across without being patronising or offensive. Go on Clob, have a go. You've ignored me so far...that's a good tactic too...
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Location: London
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 224
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14-06-2006, 06:57 PM
well that just highlights your point of view..... so you think physically abused children is some thing fit to make a joke off
Clob
I don’t actually think of child abuse but Wiziwig must have been googleing it and then wanted to talk about abusing children on this topic - so I threw a few suggestions her way as she was obviously mulling over the subject, check it out - P 15. Wysiwyg - Today, 07:03 PM
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Location: London
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 224
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14-06-2006, 07:31 PM
“the point i was trying to make with tob being a working pat dog is that i have trained him to that standard without needing or using an e collar”.
Clob
Phhewww – you fluctuate between being very sensible and then showing some kind of complete blind spot
AND
…. “the point i was trying to make with” - Illa 1985-1995 - being the only known working therapy Dobermann male ever to work in one of the old psychiatric hospitals and who was also a, civilian trained, ( by me) protection dog, deployed and subsequently acclaimed, by Southwark Crown Court Jan 1998 and the Sheriff of London Nov 1998, Inner Temple, Temple Bar, London. He was trained by me “without needing or using an e collar.” BECAUSE they were not even made then in their modern form.
I have stated many, many times in this post the FIRST ever of the modern e-training collars did not come of the production line until Sept 1998 – I mean do you get it now????????
Imprinting and early confrontation bitework with person unknown to dog - photo 1985 ( the same dog),
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...imprinting.jpg
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Location: Long Eaton
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,868
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14-06-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Clob
Leo“the point i was trying to make with tob being a working pat dog is that i have trained him to that standard without needing or using an e collar”.
Clob
Phhewww – you fluctuate between being very sensible and then showing some kind of complete blind spot
AND
…. “the point i was trying to make with” - Illa 1985-1995 - being the only known working therapy Dobermann male ever to work in one of the old psychiatric hospitals and who was also a, civilian trained, ( by me) protection dog, deployed and subsequently acclaimed, by Southwark Crown Court Jan 1998 and the Sheriff of London Nov 1998, Inner Temple, Temple Bar, London “without needing or using an e collar.”
I have stated many, many times in this post the FIRST ever of the modern e-training collars did not come of the production line until Sept 1998 – I mean do you get it now????????
Imprinting and early confrontation bitework with person unknown to dog - photo 1985 ( the same dog),
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...imprinting.jpg
if you can't debate a topic and stay civil well theres no point in going on!
do you know its against the rules of DW? or do you see yourself better than the other members so it doesn't apply to you.
i have nothing more to say to you i don't like e collars i think they are cruel and if you have to use this aid to help train your dogs to obtain control then i feel sorry for the dogs in your care.
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Location: London
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 224
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14-06-2006, 08:01 PM
If these collars are so great and pain free, why are people looking at banning them?
BUT they are looking to outlaw ecollars, legally, in this country Clob.
Why?
Clob
Oh that’s all old hat stuff – everyone knows why, because they cant compete with what they call training, its just commercial propoganda,
E-collars will not be banned in the UK, as you probably know any attempts have been kicked into touch and you also probably know Baroness Miller withdrew her amendment 14 on MAY 23 (as opposed to being outvoted) when she heard what real e-collars were, that dear lady was forgone conclusion long before. Also as you probably know the KC was seem as extreme on that day.
As some people here will confirm, I put it online before the AWB first draft became public that e-collars would not be banned here in UK.
I put it online first in Jan 2004 and then a week before the draught copy of the bill went public. E collars will not be banned here all the rantings have become quite a joke these days, posts such as this show the ‘rationality’, or othewise.
Anyway anyone who counts knows its the commercial competion which is behind the raveings, once one or two people start to get a little to carried away, someone whispers in their ear
.Sorry I might have overlooked your other posts, please dont take it as personal rejection.
Denis Carthy
UK trainer & specialist
DEFRA consultion on
Remote Static Pulse Stimulation Collars
Aug 2004.
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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14-06-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by trouble21
No me neither and this is an open discussion clob, we all have an equal voice.
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Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
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14-06-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by Clob
Denis Carthy
UK trainer & specialist
This has all become incredibly tedious. Clot, or whatever he calls himself, is clearly only interested in the sound of his own dreary voice harping on ineffectually about a 'method' that nobody is buying into and cannot sustain a rational viewpoint without trying to patronise other people. He clearly has his own agenda, which others have successfully pointed out.
As Leo said - there isn't any point in continuing a discussion like this.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 935
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14-06-2006, 08:14 PM
Denis Carthy
UK trainer & specialist
DEFRA consultion on
Remote Static Pulse Stimulation Collars
Aug 2004.
Do you train working dogs/military dogs? or are you a consultant to anyone/pet owners who want to train using this method? Not relevant to the whole "debate" just curious and please just answer,no cross referencing to other posts!
Rachel
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Location: London
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 224
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14-06-2006, 08:32 PM
if you have to use this aid to help train your dogs
Clob
You still don’t get it do you…..
I don’t need them, they are the most modern addition to my training aids and the most beneficial training aid ever…but ‘need’ them, obviously not. I had to train my dogs without them same as everyone else before the technology developed to make them what they are today, I use them because of the benfits they give both to the dog and me or owner.
….I took the trouble to learn about them when the chance came in 1998, its no use you sitting in a chair making the slightest claim you know anything at all about them because you do not know anything at all about them, you like people to think you do but that’s a dream.
You did not take the trouble (and cost) to find out anything at all about them apart from reading hysterical writings around the net and re writing your own version of it here and there.
What you really do not like about your image of me is that I know exactly what I am talking about on the subject of e-collars and their application because I have the experience. That makes you feel uncomfortable because prior to this you have never had to confront the real fact, which is, you know nothing about e-collars, when I am here you can pretend and make things up no more, its a new situation for you and you dont like it.
Pre-e collar invention/training, teddy boy dress dates the photos, shotgun used as a 'negative reinforcer' - pre e-collar training aid
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/shots49/16.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/shots49/1b.jpg