So far I have stayed away from this thread, but I understand your use of a e-collar as a last resort, and In spike's case if it is used to keep him alive, then I won't condem you as you are trying, I have seen and felt what you have felt, with your dog being so far away from being shot, by a farmer.

Same old story, person gets slammed for solving an issue that has saved her dogs life! Do people REALLY think if all this terrible pain was inflicted, the dog would come near the owner?

If you spend so much training and your dogs are so good, what do you use an e-collar for?? What situations have you used the ecollar for? Why is it better than using normal training techniques which you say you already use (strong scents, food rewards, whistles)
Bit childish making out your dogs are better than ours. Most of us are quite happy with our obedient dog which we've trained in a kind way. Watched your video link and to be honest I've seen my friends videos who is a dog handler for the British Army that do similar training. Just texted him to see if they advocate using Ecollars. Just got my answer, in 15 years training dogs, no he hasn't. Funny that

Works for mine!!

My dogs are never off lead.. and they are happy, healthy, safe and so are the livestock

I also take offence at being told that if we live somewhere with sheep then we should not have a dog with a high prey drive!! Nobody knows each others circumstances and also any breed of dog can have a high prey drive.

I have to say I dont agree with any method that shocks your dog out of its action - either electric shock, loud air noise, stinkyness, anything
If you NEED to devert the dogs focus because YOU have made the mistake of having it in a situation that it cannot make the right choises then the devertion should at least come from you - a whistle or a shout
If that is not enough to distract the dog then it is up to you to be extra vigalant to make sure your dog is never in that situation
Because what happens if the dog gets out when the coller isnt on?? - It is not a quick fix - dogs are used to chasing sheep or whatever and it will take a while for positive OR negative training to work

that is another issue I have with some of these TV shows
they use clever camera cuts and comming back to a trained dog to make it look like the method worked 100% in 5 min instead of the hours of training needed

I can guarantee that the CM episode the dog was NOT cured in the time the TV maked it seem but with weeks or months of training

and dogs are smart - if it can figure out to do everything perfect on a long line then not when the line is off then it will learn pretty quick that the nasty thing only happens when the big coller is on - so it can still chase sheep without

Sally, lots of people have given you lots of positive ways to fix your problem. I am sorry that the people you spoke to before didnt give you more alternatives before you felt the need to try the shock method

Normally my dog is of lead where possible. I have control and due to a few thousands hours of training with him i know what he can do and how he reacts. Now he is confined in his bench and to 4 walks a day on leash( a long one). He is a very unhappy dog.
One of the tools i use in training is an e-collar. I use it when necessary just as i use other tools when necessary. Strong scents for teaching to track, food for reward, whistle etc. I also noticed that the uninformed jump to concussions based on perception and often advocate a substitute that is far worse than the so called diabolic e-collar.
I read in this thread that people are con damming the ecollar but are in favor of the scent collar.

What about the fact that when you stop pushing the button with an e collar the stimuli ends with a scent collar the scent rest in the dogs nostrils. So the dog continues to be punished. HAve you ever put your nose above a citronella bottle? A dogs smell is far better then ours. Have you imagined the attack on his nose? What about the just amount of stimuli? how do you dose a scent? You don't!!

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...j_nvbk-1_sport

These dogs are trained with the use of ecollars. They don't seem to have been traumatized and the level of training exceeds anything present in Britain. If you don't believe this well train a dog to this level and come over and compete with us

Same old story, person gets slammed for solving an issue that has saved her dogs life! Do people REALLY think if all this terrible pain was inflicted, the dog would come near the owner?

I have never said it is terrible pain but I object to people candy coating it and refusing to aknowledge that if there is no pain involved it would not work. I also think that as it is remote, the dog does not realise that this pain is being inflicted by the owner.
Has the issue been solved?
Without sounding harsh, if you live somewhere with sheep at the bottom of your garden then maybe a dog with a high prey drive is not for you

If you see my previous posts, I did have experience of it. My dog kept finding a way out of the garden as well for a while straight into the back field filled with sheep, goats etc. Then he'd be an idiot if we saw sheep around and rush up and down the hedge trying to find a way through. A dog that normally was wellbehaved off lead that just went deaf. Funny thing was it only all started when he was nearly two. Sparked off by a sheep coming out of nowhere and running in front of him. So i did travel 80 miles round trip to a friends farm, most weekends and in the evenings to work on him. I knew that he wouldn't hurt the sheep physically but that doesn't stop the sheep from having a panic. So now i've turned it around and turned what was a bad thing into a good one with the dog enjoying himself
I mainly made such an extra effort as I holiday with friends in Scotland who live on an estate so sheep are flippin everywhere.