I wondered when the point about not having dogs off lead anywhere near livestock was going to pop up on this thread.
Of course some dogs are better than others when it comes to being in the vicinity of livestock. In fairness to all, ie the dogs and the livestock, it is surely responsible to ensure that your dog is on a lead at all times whether in a field with livestock or near it (including several fields away), you never know when a dog is going to bolt to chase. The issue though of using an e-collar to train your dog to be off lead around livestock or near a field of livestock is to my mind rather irresponsible (and possibly cruel), just keep the dog on a lead.
I appreciate that dogs can run off and run long distances or escape from the house and get into fields with livestock, but that implies the dog would have to be wearing the collar all the time to be effective (unless I missed the point here) and you would have to be close enough to the dog to activate it.
I may have missed many points on here, so apologies but to me the most sensible thing is forget the e-collar keep your dog on a lead...

You have a dog with a high prey drive, you might just have to except it.

I'm entitled to express my opinion which I have done. Sallylincs posted and pulled me out in her post and I have responded to it. Yes she was advised by someone to use it but she continues to support them.
At the end of the day you take responsibility for the actions that not only your dog does but also yourself, not pass the buck because someone else advised you to do it. You make the decision whether you take that advice or not. Fine you get quicker responses with an ecollar as your causing your dog a distress to whatever level but I prefer to take the long route and get my dog to obey me because he respects and trusts me.
As for the excuse it doesn't cause pain. How does anyone know whether a dog is in pain and to what extent. Just because a dog doesn't scream or roll around doesn't mean it's not in pain. My boy had a metal spike through his foot. He sat there licking the vet as he removed it and stapled him up. Was my boy therefore not in any pain??
The proof is in the pudding. How many ecollared dogs do you see out and about on walks.

nickyboy, think you are right this is endanger of slipping from a shouting match, lets all step back and consider the OP, is smacking your dog as bad as an e collar? IMO no, because smacking your dog will be done in the heat of the moment, using a shock collar is deliberately setting out to hurt your dog which again IMO is totally not acceptable if you say you are a dog lover.

yeah but i think the point is pain goes for one to a thousand on a scale and pain receptors register irritating sensation as well as out n out pain

as for ecollars being seen out n about - are they freely available over here?

i agree that i think dogs should be kept on a lead around livestock - but I dont think the training is intended for the collar to be worn persistently. Like training a dog to sit at a kerb, heaven forbid a dog gets out it may be conditioned to wait at the side of the road. I think - and i may be wrong on this - the intention is that the dog is conditioned not to chase livestock if it find itself in that situation , in the same way the episode I mentioned was to stop the dog chasing tyres going forward without collar

Stop maknig excuses for the fact you can't be bothered to put whatever time and training into what your dog requires and have just done what's best for you. Lot's of other people have the same problem with their dogs but they don't all rush out and get e-collars. They keep their dog under control or get in their cars and drive their dogs to where they know there will be no livestock.

Thanks, I knew I'd probably missed the point somewhere in wading through the 400 + posts - although I am curious to know if anyone has ever 'conditioned a dog not to chase livestock' in the situation that this thread is about, ie dogs with high prey drives.

Within 20 minutes of the e-collar session I had, Spike was walking off lead, playing with a couple of other dogs and totally ignoring the livestock (which were very close by) no problem.

Because I KNOW the e-collar gave such great results, I also know that he COULD enjoy again the freedom of being off-lead near livestock as he used to. So far, no one (for all their criticism) has come up with another way I could do this using positive methods. The only answer I get is 'keep him on lead' - this isn't training him to not chase. It's merely avoiding the problem!