Bad walks..........looking for friendly SW London dogs

We've only had Cain a month. He was poorly socialised as a puppy and is on a steep learning curve. He can show some fear aggression (hackle up and barking) mostly towards strangers at night. He's been making great progress with meeting other dogs recently. I always keep him on a lead at the moment, he's very typical puppy. He gets excited to see other dogs and will sometimes crouch down when a dog approachs to puppy pounce. Although he does put his hackles up when a dog comes up (dog trainers said this may just be high arousal/excitement as opposed to aggression) he's very sniffy and waggy and loves to have a good jump around with a friendly dog. Although he had a good play with a young English pointer, he mostly gets on well with small dogs. He has had great playtimes with westies, border terriers, and a staffy x who was well up for getting pounched on repeatedly by him

I thought we were making great progress but the last two walks have really knocked my confidence I don't know if it's Cain giving off bad signals or if we've just been unlucky at meeting grumpy dogs.

Yesterday we went down to our local park and there was a groupof about 6 dogs running around down their together. One of them, Starsky, who we met last week took an instant dislike to him when we met last week. I think he was scared of Cain, he jumped up at his owner and bared his teeth at Cain, so we didn't push the issue. I think the other dogs saw Starsky bark at Cain when he came in and the whole group completely avoided him. Poor Cain was so excited and wanted to say hello but none of the dogs wanted to know him and I wasn't going to actively march him into a group of 6 dogs. Eventually one of the black labs came up, they sniffed and then suddenly the lab put up his hackles and lunged at Cain. I had to drag him off. It was all noise and just a typical warning but I don't know what triggered it We gave up and left the park. We then met a lovely submissive husky bitch on the street, both dogs were on lead and we had a really positive interaction.

Today we went to a different green where we usually meet lovely dogs. We got off to a bad start when THREE different owners saw us coming, put their dogs on leads and actively walked the other way That sort of hurt. Then we met a nice choccy lab who bounded up very friendly with a stick in it's mouth. They sniffed, body languarge was all positive but then Cain tried to do the typical GSD thing of grabbig a scuff to play, the lab objected and there was a scuffle Luckily the other dogs owners wasn't fussed, I was just dissappointed it ended negatively, but appreciate that although Cain's behaviour wasn't aggressive, it was unacceptable to the other dog.

Then this yellow lab pounded straight towards us. I could tell by the way he was approaching it wasn't a nice dog. It was very challenging approach, fast, in a dead straight line. It stopped and stared at us. I didn;t know what to do, it was miles away from it's owner but I thought if we walked away it was liable to launch itself on Cain's back. It marched up, tail straight up in the air then went for Cain. Again another scuffle I'm angry at myself that I let that situation occur as I knew the other dog was giving off bad signals and I couldn't protect Cain. It just all happened so fast. I feel like such a failure

Three labs and ALL have ended in scuffles. The first I don't know what happened, the 2nd was sort of Cain's fault although he meant no harm and the 3rd was just an out and out attack!!! I can't see anything obvious about his body language, he seems to be giving off mostly friendly vibes (except hackles up which haven't bothered a number of dogs), I don't know if he's giving off worried vibes to bigger dogs? I'm so worried this will set his socialisation back I feel so down, I really thought we were making progress.

There are so many dogs in the area that we never met the same dogs twice! I was wondering if there were any dogs in the SW London (Richmond, Hounslow etc) area who would meet up and help us with our socialising? We just need a nice playful dog who can handle a bit of rough and tumble from a heavy playful GSD. Can anyone help?

awww poor Cain,and you. Wish we lived near you, Bella would be well up for being bounced on...endlessly LOL
I think sometimes when working with dogs who haven't had the best start in life it is one step forward,two steps back ....see my latest thread ! Hopefully this is just a little set back,don't get too down about it...I'm sure he has come on such a long way.A couple ofnice friendly dogs he can get used to sounds a great idea for helping him with his socialisation skills.
With regard to people putting their dogs back on leads, they may not mean anything like that by it. I tend to put Bella back on her lead when wesee any other dogs on a lead, because I can't always trust her not to run up to them, and I feel if a dog is on alead there is often a reason...eg being trained, overly bouncy,etc...and I just feel that it wouldn't be fair of me to let Bella run up to them....don't do it because I imagine the other dog will cause a problem...more about being respectful ofother owners with on lead dogs...
Hope you find some friends for Cain soon

I think your problem is that you`re going to small parks. Go to a larger open area, where dogs have more room to run, and where owners can`t just dash round in their high heels before popping into Waitrose. These little Parks often are populated by cliques who all know each other and their dogs can get quite territorial. Alternatively, try it at different times of day, because you get different groups.
Richmond Park is good (watch out for deer), or Ham Common, Hampstead Heath etc.

Is Gunnesbury park any good for you? Loads of nice dogs there, especially if you come lunchtime, there are dog walkers around walking same dogs every day.

Mine might want to play with yours and he's very dog friendly, but these days he seems to prefer smaller dogs.... Also I know a friendly Rottie girl in Acton park that loves playing with doggies if you ever fancy venturing further out

Sooo true, I know the sorts.

If only I lived closer as my hooligans would love to play. Bo my Slovak in particular likes it rough, GSD style!!

fluffymummy's idea sounds good for you and Cain.

I would agree that our local park down the road is exactly like that Too many dogs, too small and too many owners that expect every dog to behave perfectly and are very intolerant of any dog that shows even the slightest antisocial behaviour I hate the place and avoid it, but sometimes when time is short we have no choice.

Today's walk was at Old Deer Park which is a good expanse of green in Richmond and normally our walks go very well up there due to nicer owners, better trained dogs and more space. I guess we were just unlucky today I would LOVE to go to Richmond Park with him but it's two bus rides away or one heck of a walk (too far for a 9 month old pup) and he can't cope with buses just yet. I am hoping to get driving soon as trying to get Cain around is difficult.

Thanks Will try and work out if we can get to Gunnersbury Park, if so it would be nice to see if they like each other. Do you ever go to Marble Hill Park? We're going to try to get him up there. Apparently that's quite doggy friendly with nice people (so say some owners this way).

I feel a bit better but still pretty deflated about the set back and guilty about letting that last dog pound him I'm trying hard not to let it affect me though as I know GSD need a confindent leader they can trust and he feeds off my vibes, but it's easier said than done

Thanks I read your post and though "I know exactly how you feel". It's so frustrating when these poor dogs don't get the socialisation they need.It would take their previous owners just a few short weeks to expose their puppies properly and when it doesn't happen it take the likes or you and me to pick up the pieces, and it can take monhts or even years to repair the damage to these poor scared doggies Good luck with Bella, with all the hard work you've done, I'm sure it'll all work out in the end.

No not been to Marble Hill Park, might visit one day. We go to Richmond park sometimes, but it gets too busy on weekends if the weather is nice. I like Gunnesbury as part of it is a very big open space so dogs can have a good run around. For some reason Fluffy is better behaved there so even though we have Acton park on our doorstep we like Gunnesbury...
Most of the dogs are nice there and I tend to come across dog walkers with 15 odd dogs at a time so yours is bound to meet one who would want to play! Occasionally you might run into an idiot (they are everywhere sadly) - even there while I was walking with my dog walker this poor 4 months old Lab puppy she looks after got attacked by this dog who was off lead giving off no signals - and owner just said "oh he doesn't like puppies" and walked off! Luckily the lab is ok and still friendly and bouncy!

My dog likes all dogs and loves to play so it would be nice to run into you!

Don't take it personally when owners put their dogs on the lead. I often do this with Tala when I see another dog approaching but that is because she is liable to run off and play and not want to come back.

You say that you always keep Cain is on a lead & that other dogs have approached him in an unfriendly manner. I wonder if Cain's body language is being distorted by being on a tight lead. If he is pulling & straining to get to the other dogs, it can be misinterpreted by the other dogs as aggressive behaviour. If you could allow the lead to be loose so that Cain is not pulling, it may make him appear more friendly to other dogs. Perhaps try a long line on a harness so that he has a bit more freedom to react normally?

I've also found that some people get worried by GSDs ~ they see one on a lead & may think that it's going to be aggressive so they collect their dogs & move away. I know it's not fair to the dogs but unfortunately these assumptions about GSDs are out there.

I don't live near you otherwise I would happily meet Cain with my 2 labs. They are generally very good with other dogs, great at reading canine body language & will put up with some rough & tumbling with pups, but tell them off if they think the pup is getting too much. If ever you feel able to come down to the Sussex coast, let me know.