And Jimmy Saville raised millions for charity whilst abusing children, so it's OK to do bad things so long as you do good things as well? I don't think so!

I do think it's important to express opinions, and to sometimes accept other view, perhaps in an "agree to disagree" scenario.

However, speaking as a dog trainer and behaviourist (and I'm not the only one on here) I can't think of anything good I can say about him

Mainly because I do know of dogs who have died (been put to sleep) as a direct result of owners copying his methods.

Also because I believe he promotes methods dangerous to owners and because he knows he does.

I honestly think he is cruel. I can't see any good , because any "good" he does I think is purely for looking like a nice guy, I think it is for the cameras and publicity and so on.

I say this after following the debate and forming my own opinions with my own experience and knowledge for some years now.

Anyone who really cares about dogs doesn't set them up to be more frightened and aggressive, as in for example the video where it is shown he does just that with a stooge dog before the cameras roll, and he is laughing about it

I know many people liike some of his basic ideas, but then most dog trainers promote those, they are not new and aren't his ideas

Wys
x

I don't think you are any kind of dog beater Shane, and perhaps you feel an empathy with CM because you feel there is a spiritual side to what he does?

I can quite see why he is liked (if that makes sense) but I hope that in time, enough information might filter through so that you might alter your views

Wys
xx

Of course I understand that LS ... but the guy does good things as well as bad things. As the intelligent woman that you very kindly describe me as, I can sort the wheat from the chaff. Nothing in life is EVER black & white. I hate to use Jimmy Savile as an analogy, but let's take JS as my example. He did an enormous amount of evil things, but he also raised millions or more pounds for charity. He therefore did a lot of good, as well as a lot of evil. Nothing is black & white.

It is surely up to each individual dog owner to decide for themselves whether EVERYTHING that CM does and says is evil, or admit that some of his stuff is good stuff.

You cannot say that just because some of the things he does are cruel and abusive, that he is therefore cruel and abusive full stop.

This is inaccurate, it is untrue, and is totally illogical.

Cesar has done a lot of good in promoting the cause of pit bulls. He has probably even in America where they are illegal, saved many from Death Row. He has advocated to Americans, who are known for frequently having very large back yards, where their dogs roam free and are rarely if ever exercised, the importance of socialising and exercising your dog on a regular basis. This is good - and bad does not somehow negate good. Good comes out of evil - always. He does bad stuff, he does good stuff. I wish he would see the error of his ways and stop doing the bad stuff. But the fact that he does bad stuff, does not negate the good.

You're twisting my words Azz!!

Read again what I have said, and then repost!!

You've scored a hit with me Shane, so defo a good start there for me! You sound a lovely chap - please don't leave.

Oooo, now you're talking Ben. That foul Illusion collar, I hate it

Bitkin, you have hit the nail on the head there. You state "...you were not to know that your thread would touch such a raw nerve ...."

Does this mean that on Dogsey we must never discuss anything controversial? Sit around like a load of gossipy old women knitting and talking about safe subjects? What rubbish!!

Dogsey IS a lovely site, I have met some lovely people on here and received much help, advice, tips etc. But this is a democracy that we live in, freedom of speech and all that. If we cannot discuss a controversial subject in a civil fashion, without making a new member feel like he is a dog beater, I call it a jolly poor do.

No joto, it is not OK ... but doing good things is good, doing bad things is bad. One does not negate the other. Just because you do evil things, it does not lessen the very good things that you have done.

Am I the only person who thinks like this? If so, then I can understand the hatred of CM. But it is totally illogical as Spock would say for an intelligent species like our's to think in this way. It's downright weird!!

Whilst I agree with most of what the anti cm brigade say,my problem with it is I feel they go too far, and the argument starts to lose credibility.weve even had jimmy savilles name brought up !!!!!!!