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Location: Virtual Showground
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,518
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08-06-2008, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by Hali 
well unless we can add that the hypothetical dog was a border collie who had been given food as a substitute for exercise/mental stimulation) and/or as answer for everything (bridery to get her to do anything, e.g. move off the furniture) and who it seems had never been on walks/socialised, my answers would be completely useless
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Location: kent, uk
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 487
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08-06-2008, 07:40 AM
Originally Posted by youngstevie
Good answer.............the only thing I would be included not to use would be a muzzle...well unless it was the very last resort, althoug the answer only suggests taking one along incase.........but otherwise I agree, also with the grooming, I sit on the floor with all three of mine...trying to groom them all at once
they LOVE it...pity they can not comb my hair
maybe that it a future training exercise
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Location: kent, uk
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 487
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08-06-2008, 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart
Hey Ben Mcfuzzy, seeing as most of those posts were deviating from the topic and very pedantically picking apart everything I said, then sorry but I just can't be bothered reading them. So, tough, I don't have to read them
Good post malady, too many people on these forums assume that their own experience is more important than everyone else's. Repped you for it
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Location: kent, uk
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 487
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08-06-2008, 07:51 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK
Oh so you live with a pack of Malamutes ? Er a pack of two ??? I have friends with a slightly bigger pack of Mals-7 & like a real wolf pack they are all directly related & they are like any other multi dog household & they do have their own pack order, with the mother being the Alpha-no challenges for human world domination & a very balanced household.
I have lived with a pack of a dominant breed-not one or two Malamutes but 11 GSDs(all German working bloodlines-not show dogs). So I am not speaking from watching other peoples dogs for an hour or two(just because I now have 3 BCs & two Cavaliers do not think I base my attitude to dog behaviour on them alone)the majority of my dogs have been working bred GSDs from German bloodlines none of the pretty boy show dogs nor English Alsatians for me. The dogs had a natural pack order lead by my bitch who was a very dominant bitch, she could stop any behaviour by a look not even moving her head. When she died she was replaced by another bitch.
I really do have to smile at people who live with the Husky type breeds & claim that they are "dominant"towards humans. When I was in Alaska the mushers(not the hobby ones)did not consider that they had to "dominant"their dogs, it was much more like a working partnership with respect on both sides. Yes some use "dominance"based training, but the true mushers didn't & relied on their lead dogs(or bitches)to maintain order in the dog part of the team, without any intervention from them.
Dogs are not wolves, they maybe close genetically, but then so are the Great Apes to humans, but many many millenniums have passed since dogs & man split from their wild counterparts. Our behaviours do not closely resemble the Great Apes(haven't made a comfy bed in the trees from leaves & branches recently)
Dogs like most animals live in the now & do not plan for the morrow, no matter what your behaviourist books tell you.
i got one of those english ones - shes lovely thanks
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Location: kent, uk
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 487
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08-06-2008, 07:56 AM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK
Most GSDs that end in rescue are poorly bred untrained dogs(the reason they are in rescue)& nothing like a well bred & trained dog. I've been involved in rescue GSDs for most of my life & TBH the type of dog that goes into rescue hasn't changed over the years, the colours have(so many"white"ones nowadays)but little else.
sorry couldnt resist
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Location: kent, uk
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 487
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08-06-2008, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart
All that I have derived since joining is that this forum isn't to help dog owners, it's for dog owners to brag about how much they know and disagree with anything and everything.
[QUOTE=Patch;1399698]In your posts that seems to be the case, I just wish you could see that it`s what you have been doing since you arrived, this is everyone`s forum for everyone`s dogs, Dogsey does not exist to be about you you youQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Wishart
well ive taken the trouble to read all of this thread and I have to say Steve I agree with Patch, you said your initial thread wasnt a statement but it was.
Now take it from me I can start an argument in an empty room and ive pulled people up on the way they say things, offer unsolicited advice etc and I also hope that Ive been man enough to apologise and build bridges when Ive over stepped the mark, but I think youhave just put yourself up there to be shot down in flames.
You opened this thread with a blatant statement, the Steve Manifesto ( though for copyright infringement I will call it the Cambridge Institute Manifesto too ) on dog psychology.
I applied and paid for a number of the courses but work commitments meant i couldnt see them through so i recognise a lot of what you are saying. I bought all the reading material from Coppinger to Milan etc and have the syllabus and course overviews etc so I see where your ideas are coming from - them.
You have had 8 years experience so that means you have been a dog behaviourist since you were 16 which is very commendable and if you do want an argument, highly unlikely me old mucker.
If i had a problem dog and you turned up as a 16 year old Id think you were collecting for the scouts or delivering my free newspaper. I wouldnt let a 16 year old fix my boiler, I wouldnt let one fix my dog.
So lets assume at best you were doing it from 18 - given the fact that you dont advertise but have a half finished website with a picture of a chihahua and breed facts on it - I am then to assume that your clients are word of mouth - now im gonna take a long shot and say that if Mr Milan took 15 years to establish himself as a dog 'psychologist' you are well on your way to getting your own TV show.
So a word of mouth business takes minimum two years to get established so now we talking 20ish ( but hey im assuming you didnt stay on and do A levels or go to university - did you ?) before you really got going - so your experience has halved from that already stated by you of 8 years ( if you went uni then we talking 2 years max ).
So then you come crashing onto the forum with the HEAR ME HEAR ME - DOG BEHAVIOURIST HAS LANDED everyone listen.
Now Patch who I have clashed with before then analysed and broke down your STATEMENT and came back with her own views as did a few others and this seemed to p1ss you off....why did you start the thread to discuss or to preach???
I may not have seen eye to eye with Patch but I would not think of telling her how it should be as her experience dwarfs mine ( and yours buddy ) - not saying i have to agree with her views on ideologies, but I have to respect what she knows about dogs.
You make a statement Dogs are omnivours and then dont like the fact that someone says no.
I dont like people giving advice when its not asked for, but you havent even come across as giving advice - youre talkng AT people and dont like it when people are answering - unless they are called Malady and agree with you.
You also dont take time to read peoples comments that arent about you.
So take your hand off it for a second Steve, theres plenty to argue about, but you picking a fight about something with people way ahead of their game than you is just nonsense and to go off sulking when they dont agree - says a lot. Someone says something you dont gree with then let them have it, but dont cop the hump if all they are saying is they dont agree with you or believe you.
So when did you leave education Steve so we can clear up this 8 years dog behaviourist experience I dont swallow ?
And tell me something you havent read in a book from your Cambridge coursework ?
Patch print this comment of and frame it - youre right.
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Location: England
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 174
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08-06-2008, 09:11 AM
It may be possible to rehabilitate such a wayward puppy solely by kindness and reward, however personally I would bring in more severe smilies at this stage.
I also believe that some success has been recorded merely by changing an obnoxious puppy's name. All previous negative associations may be wiped from the slate by this method.
An alternative, of course, is rehoming. But who would take this puppy? Is there anywhere where his unruly behaviour would go unnoticed?
On a positive note, it is obvious that the lad has not really learnt to use his teeth at this stage. It is all bluster and froth. Heck, my cockatiel has given me a stronger bite!
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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08-06-2008, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Patch
I knew I could get more raspberries if I tried hard enough
thank `ee for the new batch
Tiichhhhhhh and caught at it again........... you swine! ps I want that whistling smiley,,
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Location: Somewhere
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,087
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08-06-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by Patch
I think a lot of people fall foul of trying to enforce a heirachy which is`nt what the dogs would naturally be comfortable with ie Fido was here first so he must be boss over the new dog` but Fido might not be willing or able to take that roll and then the human has created issues which often would never arise had they not interfered
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Location: Somewhere
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,087
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08-06-2008, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by Patch
Here`s one for you : Dog is being defiant, won`t listen, has tantrums, has difficulty learning anything new, has compulsive repetitive behaviours which are unacceptable, tries to appear dominant and confident but its all bravado as the dog does`nt have the wherewithall to back up the posturing signals the dog is giving off to other dogs, so ends up feeling cornered and overwhelmed, and displays defensive aggression as a result.
How would you turn this hypothetical dog around
Get it neutered
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