Urinating in Kennel, laying in it.

Hi! Call me Bib, I am new here and will introduce myself better when I have more time. I'm just desperate to get some help now, you see!

I have a 7 month old (as of yesterday) Saint Bernard puppy, named Monty, whom I love to death. He is the perfect mellow pup. He is great for walks, adores kids and other dogs, is an excellent fishing companion and can not be perturbed by being on a boat, wriggling fish, or mother's silly casting antics. He's a gem! Except for he pees in his kennel almost every night, and he is at least 50% white in coloring. This means a bath with a deodorizing and whitening shampoo almost every day... though I guess this is why he is a champ at baths! Which will be helpful when he weighs more than I do... He will have the very occasional accident in the house, normally when he is super worked up playing tug of war with the other big dog. He has also peed himself while in a dead sleep before, though only a couple times.

A little more info about him. He is still learning commands as the days go on, but currently knows sit, lay down, roll over, paw, heel, come, drop it, stay and I've almost taught him two for fun commands I copied off a co-worker after I saw her do it with her dog, "big story" (loud bark), "little story" (soft bark).

As you can tell, he isn't a stupid dog, he is high in the intelligence factor. He comes from working search and rescue bloodlines, he is papered, parents were health screened and checked out with no issues. He is an all around awesome dog that just won't get a grip on his peeing!

I've housebroken probably six other dogs before, all caught on and were relatively perfect within the first 4-6 months. Monty seemed to be following the same path in the beginning, but as he and his bladder grew his control didn't! He hasn't pooped in the house probably since 4 months, so it isn't because he doesn't understand. I've tried the bell method, and after my cats made more use of it than he did (little turds) I tossed that idea aside, and realized it wasn't a habit of being naughty, he just can not hold it.

I "restrict" his water, meaning I don't cut back how much he gets a day, he just only gets it at certain times. I didn't do this until health concerns were ruled out. He's been to my personal vet twice about it, once at 4 months when it started happening and once a month ago yesterday at his 6 month check up. I also took him into the vet clinic I work at and had the vet there look at him for a second opinion (though I do trust my personal vet 100% I've been going there for years and has never done me wrong) and a urinalysis. All normal. Was told to wait until his bladder muscles develop more as he gets older.

He can hold it, and he has. It is a good day in my household when I don't wake up and have to add a 90lb puppy bath to my already hectic schedule to get done before work. I take him out every 3 hours (he will tell me if he has to go more frequently) and he does fine. I even wake up every 3-4 hours at night to take him out, and sometimes he is yellow in his kennel even in the middle of the night! How come he can hold it all day for 3-4 hours until in his kennel? This is why I'm thinking it is a behavioral thing, somehow he associated his kennel as a good place to potty, though thank the lord he has never pooped in there!

I can not be sure associating his kennel with peeing is the problem... but you can imagine how much a 91lb 7 month Saint Bernard puppy can pee! I go through a roll of paper towels every two days just cleaning his kennel!! I figured it was worth a shot to see if anyone else has gone through this, PLEASE share words of wisdom and advice lol. Obviously he is very well loved and cared for, getting rid of him would NEVER be an option so this isn't a "be all end all" thing here... I just really don't want a yellow puppy and the shampoo I use to get him white again, nor are paper towels cheap!

If you have anymore questions about him, I will be happy to disclose more information if you ask!

-Bib (and Monty "Pee Paws")

Monty pee paws?

Look at that face - he is saying 'did you HAVE to tell everyone that I wet the bed?' lol!

You will get better advice from others than from me as I've never had this problem. However there was someone on here the other day whose dog pees in their sleep without waking up. Perhaps he just doesn't realise and his bladder relaxes when he sleeps?

He is gorgeous and you sound suitably smitten with him.

Has the vet actually done a urine test? Just going over a dog may not reveal infections etc.

If tests clear then it could be the association of kennel and peeing or simply he cannot last that long.

What time does he go out before you go to bed? May be he needs to be let out more often in the nigh to break the vicious cycle....

Gorgeous dog, by the way.

ETA Sorry - reread your post - tests already done

Just a thought....if you didn't restrict his water during the day he might drink all that he needs and pee it all out during the day and stay dry at night???

I think our Betty was trained on paper in her crate, so we have just put her in a bigger crate with room for her to have paper to wee on and her blankets to sleep on at the back. Easier with her as she is a tiny chihuahua though as you would need a major crate for your rather gorgeous Monty !

What do you have on the floor of the kennel. My girls are in outdoor kennels, however they have rubber stable matting down with shavings on top, any wet and poo is cleared up in the morning, thorough clean mid day with fresh down and skipped out again at night.
If he is on bare boards then he is going to covered in it in the morning, but if he is on shavings then it will be soaked up by the shavings and the rubber matting will prevent it going through to the floor.

Sounds like his housetraining is going better outside his crate.

Is he destructive if left out loose at night? While I feel crate training is an essential thing to teach (and by the sounds of it, he already is crate trained), maybe you can try to have him gated off in a part of the house like the kitchen or a hallway instead of sleeping in his crate at night. At least until the cause can be found.

I wonder of the vet can prescribe incontinence meds. I don't know much about it so maybe someone with more experience will chime in whether there's a test/exam that can be done to determine if it is indeed incontinence.

Theres something going on. Get an early morning urine sample from him & get to your vet as soon as so its really fresh & ask the vet to 'spin' it not just dip stick it

I would also want a full blood workout (full blood picture) done on this pup. If it happens when sleeping, he is not aware of it. There are many reasons for this type of problem including immature bladder, however if it were me i would want everything else ruled out first.

One of ours had the similar symptoms when she was a puppy. Vets told us it was immature bladder or could be ectopic ureters. She also took recurrent UTIs. Looking back i think they should, at that stage, have did full blood work.

I do not agree with restricting water at any time - whether the dog is allowed its fill when water is down or not.

If a dog is thirsty and there is no water freely available his/her urine becomes concentrated, and concentrated urine can be painful therefore the bladder will release it.

Consciously or unconsciously.

I agree with Malka, he needs to have water all the time. The only other experience like this I've had was another huge breed, a Newfoundland pup who was quite happy to wee while he was still sat down or lying down. Sorry I don't know how he developed though because I only met him once.