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Tupacs2legs
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Tupacs2legs is offline  
Location: london.uk
Joined: May 2009
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26-05-2010, 09:36 PM
hi

oh the determination of a northern breed

he is being normal for a northerner,bloomin wind up merchants...it does get better,my old lurcher went through hell from my first sibe but he was only 5 and a permenant fixture..he just waited till he thought she was old enough and then told her.
time out teaches a northern breed nothing.
is this situation really fair on either dog as its not for keeps?
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TangoCharlie
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Location: East, UK
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27-05-2010, 07:31 AM
Originally Posted by Steve + Nanook View Post
My pup is now 10 weeks old. The first two weeks, he was very receptive to his recall, would follow commands very easily (such as 'leave') and his bite inhibition was coming along very well. Even housetraining was getting under control.

Now, he's like a completely different dog. He doesn't do recall very well, despite going back and starting from scratch again, he ignores leave, which has now been changed to a new word which is 'stop' and thats not moving along as quickly.

I've also had to look after a pretty old Border Collie Cross, which I had hoped would help him socialise better. I've had her for almost a day now and he just won't leave her alone. He'll assert complete dominance over her by trying to block her movement, he's tried to place his paw on her back a few times which I have had to intervene with and when she's sleeping, he'll nip at her back leg like he's herding her. She's snapped back a couple of times to tell him to sod off and he gets the message, retreats for 5-10 minutes and then repeats his process all over.

I've had to seperate them as its getting too stressful for the BC x, I do have somewhere, where I can send her away until the owners get back, but I really would like to get my pup under control and socialise better with the dog as it's important he won't be a tyrant around other dogs in the future, so looking to nip this in the bud now.

Anyone had similar experiences who could dispense some much needed advice would be very welcome.

Hi mate
Im in exactly the same situation as you. I got a 15 week puppy and a 12 year old greyhound.
And what you are describing sounds like your puppy nearing the adolescent period.
We spend time and effort training the little blighters only for them to get to start pushing every boundary!

The puppy isn't using dominance but is trying to get the collie to play. My puppy does that to my old greyhound all the time. Dominance is a tricky subject but I dont think your puppy is showing it there.

You have to manage the situation. Split them up regularly if it gets rough. Try the 'leave' command when the puppy goes up the the sleeping collie. If the puppy continues and the Collie looks uncomfortable issue a clam but firm verbal reprimand like 'ah ah' and separate them. The pup has to know when play is acceptable and when it's not. Separate them, wait for two minutes and maybe have a game of fetch with the puppy as he is in a playful mood.
He is probably a bit rougher with the collie as they are familiar with each other. I would guess that sort of 'play' would not occur in the local park with another dog!

if they are always rough with each other then you have to recognise the signs early and distract the puppy away, maybe with a game or maybe get the older dog to rest in an area away from the puppy. It's all about management.

As I said, my two are the same but I'm not too worried by it.

Hope that helps.
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Steve + Nanook
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27-05-2010, 11:49 PM
Yet another day of him being a naughty little sod to be honest. His housetraining seems to be completely forgotten, his bite inhibition has now gone back to snapping at faces and he snapped at the older dog because she had something to eat.

Frankly, he's been dreadful. Patience is wearing thin after 3 days of constant yapping for attention (despite it never being given when he yaps), barking for food (again, not getting any), biting my cheek when I bent down to stroke him (something he has NEVER done before as his bite inhibition was perfect) and countless other new traits like jumping up on me, which he has been discouraged from doing so due to my nan and neighbour often coming round who are both rather frail and won't be able to withstand a 100kg plus mutt jumping up on them.

Honestly, it feels like the 3 weeks I have spent training him has been completely forgotten, he's making life stressful for the dog in my care and now he is affecting other members of the household with his constant attention seeking behaviour.

With regards to the above post, it's half playful and it's half dominance. He tried to play with her the first day and she dismissed all his advances. Since then, he will block off every path she walks, he'll push her out of the way when going through doors/up the stairs, he will snarl, growl, bark and in one case, go for her if she has food. None of that has anything to do with being playful. That's purely him trying to dominate her wherever she goes and whatever she does.

He's what, 11 weeks now? I've had him for 3 weeks, over the past week though, he has just been a completely different dog. I understand that 'he sounds just like so and so', which frankly isn't of much help. The behaviour he is showing now simply cannot be allowed to continue.

So, if anyone has a Malamute who can perhaps give some advice on this issue would be most kind. What is the best way to punish them to give him boundaries so that he knows what he can and can't do? I'm not going to offer up a distraction like a toy because frankly, it doesn't work and it only rewards the naughty behaviour.

I've tried removing him from the situation and I've tried to issue a strong leave command which honestly, he forgets after a few hours anyway.

I know the Mal's are a difficult bunch to train more so than other dogs, but any tips on how I can get him to fall in line would be welcomed. Comments such as 'he is a puppy, he'll eventually grow out of it' aren't really that useful, sadly. He needs boundaries and limits NOW.
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TangoCharlie
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28-05-2010, 05:20 AM
I personally don't think a puppy knows what 'dominance' is. It's still a label I would not easily pin on a dog especially not a puppy.
I would be careful if you go down the punishment route. You have to set guidelines and the the dog will error. When he gets it right he should be rewarded for making the right choice. It's basic learning. You have to be consistant. Also look up 'extinction burst' as this happens briefly.

If his behaviour has so suddenly change I would take him to the vet and find out if there is an underlying health issue going on here.
Have you changed his food recently?

If it is a dramatic change in personality it is prob a result of something changing quickly. Diet, health or a certain incident/reprimand.

Everyone has told me my breed of dog is crazy. And times I have struggled but stuck to my guns and used positive reinforcement.
Good luck.
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youngstevie
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28-05-2010, 06:19 AM
Im sorry but what I am going to say may offend.

Firstly regarless to breed this is an 11 week old puppy, forget the dominance stuff, and drop that word (sorry thats IMO) he's being an 11 week old puppy first and formost.
He has been there 3 weeks and is now feeling this is home, so he is being boistious and a little cocky, so what, if he was with siblings this is just what he would be like.
Why do you have to look after the old dog may I ask, is this your dog or someone elses, bring in another dog will only make him forget everything you have been teaching him, after all trying to play, snarl, growl, jumping out blocking door ways, its all a type of play to him, whether the older dog likes it or not.

I have a pup here thats nearly 7 months, everything I have taught her is ''at the moment'' all being forgotten, because my other 3 dogs are much more interesting. Infact I have had days where I feel I would get more sense if I talked to a brick wall rather than talk to her.
But your feeling of frustration and despair will not help i can tell you that much, pup's/dogs will pick up on that straight away, and its like dealing with naughty children they will know immediately that they have ''gottcha'' wound up and push boudnries more.

Sort out what boundries you want, and it will be repetative, it will feel like its going on and on, but it will in time sink in what you want.
Train him away from the other dog 5 mins a time perhaps twice a day, if you say NO or Leave and he doesn't listen just remove him and thats everytime. As for punishment I am not really sure what you mean by that, but pups IMO do not know what punishment is for, Mother of pups, will grab a ear sharply and let the pup know they have overstepped the mark (I am not suggesting you do this by the way) but if the older dog isn't doing that then that suggests to me that the older dog doesn't really mind or is very tolerent of the pup.
Sorry but I think you are expecting far too much from an 11 week old pup as everything you have written sounds normal progression to me.
Its a long weary road with pups Im afraid, some of it is fun, some is frustrating and some people will tell you when alot of dogs get to the Kevin/ waynetta stage it all seems to go out of the window and you have to start all over again, thats a simple fact.
If you feel your patience is wearing thin at times, remove the pup to his crate, the older dog in another room and yourself outside, but I will say this (and this is experience talking) your best bet of training is away from the other dog where there is no distractions, when you ans he are with the other dog, then this will have to be managed behaviour enforced by you, with treat/praise rewards as tiresome as that is.
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Velvetboxers
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28-05-2010, 08:01 AM
Totally agree with above post. You are expecting far roo much from a 11-week old pup. Of course he wants to play with tbe older dog, shes one of his kind. Fact she is so old makes it unfair for her so i petsonally would keep them apart. Distraction if you cant do that is the "key" tobit.

You dont get perfect pups. Snapping, biting, jumping up, its all perfectly normal for pup this age. Its not the pup thats at fault or his attitude, its you! Sorry if i offend, but its a fact.

Take him out into the garden for some play, throw a tpy or ball or both. Life for a pup is play, sleep, eat & more play. 5 mins maxium at that age of traini g daily is enough. You need to loosen up & stop expecting so much. If he was 6 months old i could understand your reactions!

Enjoy your pup. He wont house train overnite. Its all part & parcel of owning a pup. Of course its hard work. You need to nuture & train with gentle methods not expect so much of your pup. What he is doing for a pup his age is perfectly normal

Some pups are a good six montths before fully housevtrained, some older, ots like potty training a youngster, they are all different

Loosen up & stop expecting so much. If you get frusyrated, walk away. Keep the older dog away, its not fair to expect her to expect her to cope with a normal "baby" pup at her very advanced age.
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Lorna
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28-05-2010, 08:10 AM
I have an 11 wk old pup and a 11 month old dog. So I have a baby and a teenager essentially. At the moment, both are testing the boundaries, but I knew that was what was going to happen. They play fight, they tell each other off, Storm (puppy) tells off Chase (teenager) and visa versa. Storm is naughty, Chase is naughty.

You can't expect as much as I think it sounds like you are from an 11 wk old pup, its like asking an 8 yr old to sit their A levels, they push your buttons and make your hair go grey, and then they settle down, and get to 9-12 months and become ******s again!
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ClaireandDaisy
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28-05-2010, 08:31 AM
It`s a dog - what do you want it to do? Play its X-Box? Young dogs are hard work. You get the benefits later. It`s no good moaning about it behaving like a dog.
Three weeks of stress? Get a grip, man. If you want a peaceful life get a goldfish. If you want a lifetime of fun, despair, heartbreak and joy, get a dog.
You get back what you put in.
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Labman
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28-05-2010, 10:29 AM
Having had many puppies, I can say they vary. Some do require much more work than others. Some sleep a lot and when awake will lie quietly in a corner chewing a toy. What works with such easy puppies may not work with yours.

You will need to be constantly on duty watching the puppy and being quick to divert it from things including the older dog if it doesn't want to play.

Although the terms dominance and pack behavior are out of fashion now, puppies still respond well to obedience training. Stick to positive methods and keep sessions short, only a few minutes at a time.
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Steve + Nanook
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28-05-2010, 10:52 AM
So, my puppy placing his paw on the back of the neck of the older dog then both going viciously at each other because she had a treat and having to be seperated is just them playing?

Sorry, don't believe that for a second. There's playing and there's fighting.

As for expecting 'too much', all I am expecting is that everything I taught him doesn't go backwards. I'm not training him to ride a bicycle. I'm trying to get him to do the things that up until a few days ago, he had no problem doing. Sit, stay, down, paw, leave etc. it's only been a few days since he is frequently spending more time peeing in the house than outside, thankfully it's not the number 2's.

I am not expecting anything over night, but I certainly don't expect so much regression over night. Which is the problem.

P.S. From those who replied, I see none are current owners of a northern breed. I presume you all have had experiences with them, right?
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