Do you know how much fruit costs? I know how much I had to pay this morning.

If I was a young mother with very limited money, and believe me I have been there, done that, and worn out more teeshirts than maybe you have had hot dinners, there is no way I would be able to afford fruit.

I bought the cheapest meat and fish I could get. Fruit was a special treat for special occasions. For my children that is. I could not afford it for myself.

You make assumptions about me,i would guarantee i could buy more fruit and vegetables for the price of meat,however cheap. But you are missing the point, I am not judging you,all i have said and no one has said otherwise,cheap normally comes at another animals expense. If you disagree and think all farming is great then we must agree to disagree.

Cheep for dogs does not mean low wellfare - for a while I was lucky and got organic lamb free for my dogs
It was heart offcuts that the butcher put aside because noone else would buy them
Bones are free or nearly free if you look in the right places
Offal is very cheep
Chicken wings thighs and carcasses
Fish trimmings
and there are plenty of cuts of meat that us in the UK are a bit squeemish to buy that are great for the dogs

Cheep dosent have to mean low wellfare - but using up cuts that other people dont want

Very true, in the UK many are too squeamish to consume lungs, sweetbreads, heads, trotters, etc etc

So this is very cheap.

Rabbits, pheasant, partridge, pigeon, deer, etc all have very good lives living "free range".


Also very cheap if not free.

Good for you, I have never said always but normally. Of course it can be done and just brilliant when it is.

we eat LOADS of game. I have just restated project Quail too

Of course not, I was four but my parents did and made sure that despite being vegetarian, I was given a balanced diet with plenty of protein. It is possible to get enough protein and be a perfectly healthy child without eating meat. It shouldn't be forced on kids but neither should eating meat. As long as a kid is getting a balanced meal, I see no issue.

As for your last comment, isn't it a little contradictory that you're so appalled by that image yet are apparently fine with offering no veggie meals at all on a children's menu? Surely 'You aren't allowed anything with a V by it' is just as bad as 'You're only allowed meals with a V by them'?

I find this all very interesting - it's an argument I have had many occasion with vegans and cats. I'm vegan myself but have an entire fridge dedicated to meat.

I try where possible to source the meat from a local butcher who knows where the meat is coming from, rather than a large supermarket chain. I believe it does make me a hypocrite but it's my decision to live with animals who are carnivores and I should not be depriving them of their natural diet.

I personally think feeding a carnivore a vegetarian diet is animal experimentation. We don't know the long term affects, I'm not that up on dog physiology as my dog is a new addition but I have a ferret rescue and a cat (both animals are classed as strict carnivores so can not have any grains/wheat or shouldn't at least). Cats and ferrets at least don't have a cerum which is the part of the digestive tract which processes vegetable matter - so feeding vegetable based protein is a big waste of time.
There are also some reported issues in cats on vegetarian diets with urinary tract infections from an overland of salt minerals such as calcium, magnesium, sodium. These are normally compounds found in bones/meat but are supplemented to vegetarian cat foods in such a way that they can't be digested properly.

Also teeth and gums in animals are best kept clean by tearing and chewing on meat and bones.

If you don't want to directly support the farm industry, many butchers will be happy to give parts of the animal they can't sell to you for animal consumption. We feed a lot of chicken liver, chicken heart which a lot of people don't buy.


(By the by humans are omnivores and you'd be surprised how much protein is in things like whole wheat pasta, brown rice, lentils etc)