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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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14-02-2010, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by naughtydog 
I have used an e collar - and when used correctly it is an awesome tool. Modern e collars are capable of going to extremely low levels, levels so low that we cant detect them and the dog will interprate the stimulation as a fly landing on it, or they will turn around out of confusion, once they have been shown how the stimulation works, they can relate to it and it just becomes a prompt for behaviours.
You can have rock solid recalls unlike a lot of dogs out there that cause a bit of mayhem and then decide to go back to their owners.
For people who try e collars on themselves at the lowest level - you should not be able to feel it!! As far hurting your arm for few minutes after - I find this amazing - you must have been using some ancient relic.
I know some people really use them in the wrong way - to shock a dog on too high a setting to teach it a lesson, this I do not agree with, but for dogs with high prey drive who have no interest in treats when a rabbit is on the horizon, they do have a place in the set of tools needed to achieve results.
My 2p
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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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14-02-2010, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by naughtydog
I have used an e collar - and when used correctly it is an awesome tool. Modern e collars are capable of going to extremely low levels, levels so low that we cant detect them and the dog will interprate the stimulation as a fly landing on it, or they will turn around out of confusion, once they have been shown how the stimulation works, they can relate to it and it just becomes a prompt for behaviours.
You can have rock solid recalls unlike a lot of dogs out there that cause a bit of mayhem and then decide to go back to their owners.
For people who try e collars on themselves at the lowest level - you should not be able to feel it!! As far hurting your arm for few minutes after - I find this amazing - you must have been using some ancient relic.
I know some people really use them in the wrong way - to shock a dog on too high a setting to teach it a lesson, this I do not agree with, but for dogs with high prey drive who have no interest in treats when a rabbit is on the horizon, they do have a place in the set of tools needed to achieve results.
My 2p
I have never used a shock collar
But when I first got Mia I thought it was safe to let her offlead in a totaly enclosed graveyard in the middle of nowhere
She scaled the drystone dyke and squeezed under a couple of electric fences to get to a field of sheep.
Her prey drive was so strong that nothing was stopping her getting to those sheep
Thankfully the collie in her was strong enough that she just pushed the sheep into a corner and then came running back
But she wouldnt come under the electric fence again, we had to find a gate to get her out, so she had been shocked, it had been hard enough to hurt her, she remembered it but still squeezed under another fence to get to the sheep
If I wanted to use an e-collar on her it would have to have been on a level to knock her off her feet
But with lots of training, counterconditioning and desensitisation two days ago we walked (onlead) past a field of sheep and she had a little look but showed no interest in getting into the field
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Location: Wirral, Cheshire UK
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 114
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14-02-2010, 07:15 PM
I have never used a shock collar on a dog, and never will.
However, almost every weekend when walking my dog, we see a lady with her dog. Both our dogs have a good play together, and me and the lady have a good chat as we walk along.
Her dog is absolutely gorgeous, but not very well trained. She will be let off the lead and only sometimes come back. Literally, she will run and run into the distance. The problem is, she has serious dog aggression, only towards very submissive dogs (not to Zara, she won't be bullied).
If she goes so far that cannot be seen any more, she will be called, called again and called one last time before she gets a shock. She always comes back when she is shocked. I have seen the results of a dog being shocked (that CM clip, with the black GSD), but it wasn't anything like that. The dog didn't seem to be in pain when she was shocked, which I find odd considering how painful it is supposed to be. It doesn't make me agree with using one anymore though.
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Location: West of Scotland
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,034
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14-02-2010, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ripsnorterthe2nd
Well she's not said anymore about it, I think I've ranted that much about it she's given up. Either that or she's done it anyway and not told me.
I do find it very difficult to swallow tbh and she's gone right down in my estimations that's for sure.
Might email her those articles again I think.
Yep, go on, e-mail them to her again.
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Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,859
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14-02-2010, 07:28 PM
Not sure if it helps, but my friend in Bedale does 1 to 1 gundog training and she's excellant at solving this sort of problem, you could mention she tries trainig would probably be cheaper as well.
Good luck,
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Location: Kent, UK
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 28
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14-02-2010, 07:59 PM
http://banshockcollars.ca/default.aspx
I make it a point to regularly try shock collars on myself, in the interests of research, both on the inner part of my arm and on adjacent to the jugular on my neck. Even if I apply the shock myself at the lowest 'nick' setting, it is deeply distressing and painful and leaves slight scalds on my skin, and these are up-to-date models so the excuse cannot be given that they are 'old models'.
I ban any owner from my clubs who supports their use, complete with a package of information on why I condemn their use. If I could get away with it legally I would force the owners to have me apply shocks to them with with the same collar they use on their dogs.
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Location: Essex, UK
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,147
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15-02-2010, 10:00 AM
Only most newbies make their first post one introducing their dog or saying hello....not digging out old threads about dog abuse.
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Location: Australia
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
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15-02-2010, 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
Come on Nick, come back and prove you`re not a troll.
Only most newbies make their first post one introducing their dog or saying hello....not digging out old threads about dog abuse.
my thoughts too
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Location: B'ham (nr the airport)
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,963
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15-02-2010, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by naughtydog
I have used an e collar - and when used correctly it is an awesome tool. Modern e collars are capable of going to extremely low levels, levels so low that we cant detect them and the dog will interprate the stimulation as a fly landing on it, or they will turn around out of confusion, once they have been shown how the stimulation works, they can relate to it and it just becomes a prompt for behaviours.
If a fly lands on any of my dogs they don't take a blind bit of notice (unless the fly moves and they try to catch it!).
You can have rock solid recalls unlike a lot of dogs out there that cause a bit of mayhem and then decide to go back to their owners.
My dogs have good recall. Zane's recall was "rock solid" (to use your own words). OK - so I have to go back a few steps and do extra training with him at the moment but I've never used shock or spray collars with any of them. I get a great sense of achievement out of training them properly and I know they understand fully when I've taken the time to show them adn we've practised laods. I'm also veryproud of my dogs for what they've learned and how they try so hard to please me all the time. These collars aren't necessary. Until recently, we didn't have such devices. Dogs were still trained to a very high standard years ago, so IMO people who use them either can't be bothered to train their dogs properly or are sadistic W4nkers who enjoy hurting dogs.
For people who try e collars on themselves at the lowest level - you should not be able to feel it!! As far hurting your arm for few minutes after - I find this amazing - you must have been using some ancient relic.
I know some people really use them in the wrong way - to shock a dog on too high a setting to teach it a lesson, this I do not agree with, but for dogs with high prey drive who have no interest in treats when a rabbit is on the horizon, they do have a place in the set of tools needed to achieve results.
No, they don't. They're not needed at all. Look through history at all the most highly trained dogs - obedience, trials, etc. Years ago we had flat collars and nothing else. There are kinder tools to used for training adn easier and more humane methods of training.
My 2p
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
I have to disagree
I have never used a shock collar
But when I first got Mia I thought it was safe to let her offlead in a totaly enclosed graveyard in the middle of nowhere
She scaled the drystone dyke and squeezed under a couple of electric fences to get to a field of sheep.
Her prey drive was so strong that nothing was stopping her getting to those sheep
Thankfully the collie in her was strong enough that she just pushed the sheep into a corner and then came running back
But she wouldnt come under the electric fence again, we had to find a gate to get her out, so she had been shocked, it had been hard enough to hurt her, she remembered it but still squeezed under another fence to get to the sheep
If I wanted to use an e-collar on her it would have to have been on a level to knock her off her feet
But with lots of training, counterconditioning and desensitisation two days ago we walked (onlead) past a field of sheep and she had a little look but showed no interest in getting into the field
Fantastic. Well done to you both. You must be so proud of her.
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Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
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15-02-2010, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by morganstar
Hi Hun,
Not sure if it helps, but my friend in Bedale does 1 to 1 gundog training and she's excellant at solving this sort of problem, you could mention she tries trainig would probably be cheaper as well.
Good luck,
Would be interested in the details though for future reference if you wouldnt mind though?
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